Bahrain

[somerfrost]

Originally Posted by Riot

You were doing very well trying to have an intelligent thread about Bahrain. But Dell has this unhealthy weird fixation thing where he drags my name into threads I'm not even posting upon.

Carry on, I was silently agreeing with your insights

I'm not sure I have a lot of insight here but to me, Bahrain is a test of our values. We must decide whether basic human rights extend to everyone regardless of their feelings about us, their religion, even their willingness to extend those rights to us. I don't think 10 of millions of Muslims hate us because we worship the Almighty differently than them, rather because they see us as the "haves" to their "have nots". Religion is the easy way out, just as popes and kings of past Europe used religion to justify the Crusades, radical Islamic elements attempt to urge hatred using beliefs that are so important to people who have little else in life. Two elements are at play, failure to listen to those who think differently than us, and hatred that arises from fear of those who we perceive as different than us...race, religious beliefs, politics...all are just tools to perpetuate this fear and hatred. In the end, if we as a nation are to be true to ourselves, we must stand with the people of Bahrain against tyrany. The results are not within our control, our actions are.

[SOREHOOF]

Why do they hate Israel?

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by somerfrost

I'm not sure I have a lot of insight here but to me, Bahrain is a test of our values. We must decide whether basic human rights extend to everyone regardless of their feelings about us, their religion, even their willingness to extend those rights to us. I don't think 10 of millions of Muslims hate us because we worship the Almighty differently than them, rather because they see us as the "haves" to their "have nots". Religion is the easy way out, just as popes and kings of past Europe used religion to justify the Crusades, radical Islamic elements attempt to urge hatred using beliefs that are so important to people who have little else in life. Two elements are at play, failure to listen to those who think differently than us, and hatred that arises from fear of those who we perceive as different than us...race, religious beliefs, politics...all are just tools to perpetuate this fear and hatred. In the end, if we as a nation are to be true to ourselves, we must stand with the people of Bahrain against tyrany. The results are not within our control, our actions are.

it's a current test, the latest part of aa test we've been failing for years. our goal has been stability in the middle east, not democracy. now, when the people there are seemingly ready, we're not! this is what we get as a nation for not standing up for our core beliefs. instead, we've taken the road that benefits us monetarily. greed has won the day for years.
it's time for us to stand tall for peoples' rights-in the end that will pay off far more than the years of giving aid to foreign countries run by dictators. we have been short sighted for far too long.
that said, obama is in latin america instead of meeting with europes top leaders about libya. wrong move there! the veep should have gone south.

Originally Posted by Danzig

it's a current test, the latest part of aa test we've been failing for years. our goal has been stability in the middle east, not democracy. now, when the people there are seemingly ready, we're not! this is what we get as a nation for not standing up for our core beliefs. instead, we've taken the road that benefits us monetarily. greed has won the day for years.
it's time for us to stand tall for peoples' rights-in the end that will pay off far more than the years of giving aid to foreign countries run by dictators. we have been short sighted for far too long.
that said, obama is in latin america instead of meeting with europes top leaders about libya. wrong move there! the veep should have gone south.

I simply disagree. The numbers don't add up. More people living in any semblance of a democracy means more opportunities for our corrupt corporations and politicians to ship jobs overseas.

We NEVER benefit in the long run. All of the free trade agreements have been disastrous for the average American.

[Danzig]

that's an interesting take on things. i'd have to think tho that everyone would be better off if more countries were stable, and less theocracies, dictatorships ,etc. you'd also have to think it would save us money long range-militarily as well as economically.

Originally Posted by Danzig

that's an interesting take on things. i'd have to think tho that everyone would be better off if more countries were stable, and less theocracies, dictatorships ,etc. you'd also have to think it would save us money long range-militarily as well as economically.

Yeah...uh no. That's a nice optimistic view though.

"Democracy" in the middle east will mean $6/gallon gas. It will be the final nail in the coffin for this country.

The only positive outcome would be a revolution here. We need one in the worst way.

[somerfrost]

Originally Posted by Coach Pants

Yeah...uh no. That's a nice optimistic view though.

"Democracy" in the middle east will mean $6/gallon gas. It will be the final nail in the coffin for this country.

The only positive outcome would be a revolution here. We need one in the worst way.

All these arguments are based on what would be the best for America, but our ideals are that all people are entitled to human rights...therein lies the problem, do we base our actions on projections of what will benefit us or what is in line with our basic beliefs? If we think in terms of "what's in it for (the collective) me" then one has to question whether we really believe in basic human rights...

Originally Posted by somerfrost

All these arguments are based on what would be the best for America, but our ideals are that all people are entitled to human rights...therein lies the problem, do we base our actions on projections of what will benefit us or what is in line with our basic beliefs? If we think in terms of "what's in it for (the collective) me" then one has to question whether we really believe in basic human rights...

Our foreign policy is evidence we don't believe in human rights. Otherwise the Saudi royal family wouldn't be in power.