Founding fathers liked taxed government health care

[Riot]

Originally Posted by dellinger63

Yea always in the details. BTW the private sailors were treated at Fed run hospitals not private. So again all in the details. Keep trying...

Tell me, Dell - do you think it's constitutional for the government to mandate health care and collect money to pay for it?

Some Tea Bagger types scream it's unconstitutional, and the founding fathers never would stand for it. In fact, lawsuits have been filed against the PPACA.

Congress Passes Socialized Medicine and Mandates Health Insurance -In 1798

The ink was barely dry on the PPACA when the first of many lawsuits to block the mandated health insurance provisions of the law was filed in a Florida District Court.

The pleadings, in part, read -

The Constitution nowhere authorizes the United States to mandate, either directly or under threat of penalty, that all citizens and legal residents have qualifying health care coverage.

State of Florida, et al. vs. HHS

It turns out, the Founding Fathers would beg to disagree.

[dellinger63]

Originally Posted by Riot

Tell me, Dell - do you think it's constitutional for the government to mandate health care and collect money to pay for it?

Some Tea Bagger types scream it's unconstitutional, and the founding fathers never would stand for it.

Sure you can mandate health care and collect money. The problem lies in the fact private, for-profit, entities are the insurer and care giver. Unless the Fed takes over the entire system then no it's unconstitutional IMO.

Would it be constitutional for the government to mandate savings and require say 10% of income go into privately invested mutual funds approved by the Fed or face penalty?

Those who either don't have the means or are severely in debt will be subsidized by those who have been paying their bills and will be given contributions? I think the Founding Fathers are rolling over in their graves and spinning faster.

[Riot]

Sure you can mandate health care and collect money.

So you think it is constitutional?

The problem lies in the fact private, for-profit, entities are the insurer and care giver.

So you are in favor of public hospitals, not private for profit? Or you think there should be a single payer option?

Unless the Fed takes over the entire system then no it's unconstitutional IMO.

Sorry, that makes no sense at all to me. You think a National Healthcare (like the VA) would be constitutional, but allowing private hospitals to be for profit isn't?

Would it be constitutional for the government to mandate savings and require say 10% of income go into privately invested mutual funds approved by the Fed or face penalty?

That's Social Security, except it's not mutual funds.

Those who either don't have the means or are severely in debt will be subsidized by those who have been paying their bills and will be given contributions?

What do you think happens right now? We are paying for the uninsured right now. In our insurance premiums and hospital costs, we pay for them.

I think it's a good idea for those folks to become insured, and off my dime.

I think the Founding Fathers are rolling over in their graves and spinning faster.

I think they are appalled at the complete lack of social conscience shown by many today. Especially as they, themselves, have done the same.

First, it created the Marine Hospital Service, a series of hospitals built and operated by the federal government to treat injured and ailing privately employed sailors. This government provided healthcare service was to be paid for by a mandatory tax on the maritime sailors ... , the same to be withheld from a sailor’s pay and turned over to the government by the ship’s owner. The payment of this tax for health care was not optional. If a sailor wanted to work, he had to pay up.

The law was not only the first time the United States created a socialized medical program (The Marine Hospital Service) but was also the first to mandate that privately employed citizens be legally required to make payments to pay for health care services. Upon passage of the law, ships were no longer permitted to sail in and out of our ports if the health care tax had not been collected by the ship owners and paid over to the government – thus the creation of the first payroll tax in our nation’s history.

When a sick or injured sailor needed medical assistance, the government would confirm that his payments had been collected and turned over by his employer and would then give the sailor a voucher entitling him to admission to the hospital where he would be treated for whatever ailed him.

While a few of the healthcare facilities accepting the government voucher were privately operated, the majority of the treatment was given out at the federal maritime hospitals that were built and operated by the government in the nation’s largest ports.

Let's pretend this happened today: the government says sick citizens are bad for our economy. So they force every employed citizen - private citizens employed by private companies - to pay a payroll tax. The employer has to hold it out of the paycheck, it's the law. When the citizen gets sick, they get a voucher, and they can go to either a VA hospital or a private hospital. No voucher if you didn't pay into the system.

That is far above, and more strict, than what the PPACA mandates.

[dellinger63]

Originally Posted by Riot

So you think it is constitutional?



So you are in favor of public hospitals, not private for profit? Or you think there should be a single payer option?.

Now you got it!

And no I'm NOT in favor of public hospitals or even the thought of it.

BTW if it was important and timely I'd also use Fed Ex over the USPO.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by dellinger63

Now you got it! .

So you think the health care mandate is constitutional, hospitals should be private, and there should be government single payer?

BTW, Cook County is a public hospital. So are VA hospitals. You think they should be shut down?

[dellinger63]

Originally Posted by Riot

So you think the health care mandate is constitutional, hospitals should be private, and there should be government single payer?

No a health care mandate with government hospitals and care is constitutional.

Mixing MANDATE and PRIVATE is where the problem lays. Not constitutional. Since I'm a very anti government-run anything much less healthcare this plan is something I'd throw in the garbage and say I'm happy with what I have.

[Riot]

No a health care mandate with government hospitals and care is constitutional.

That's completely, 100% nationalized healthcare. Government-employed doctors, government run hospitals.

Mixing MANDATE and PRIVATE is where the problem lays. Not constitutional.

The Supremes have already said other mixes of public and private, Social Security and Medicare, are constitutional. And the founders thought it constitutional, too (the articles I posted)

Since I'm a very anti government-run anything much less healthcare this plan is something I'd throw in the garbage and say I'm happy with what I have.

The plan doesn't make you change what you have. Your costs will go down, however. So be really angry about that. The plan gets the uninsured insured. The plan has already gotten many students and young people insured, and lowered prescription drug costs for seniors.