Spectacular Bid

[Indian Charlie]

Paster was a complete monster. He just was unlucky, historically speaking.

I was a big fan of Valdez. He sired an early favorite of mine, Basic Rate.

[miraja2]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

Looking at the 70's the best I could - I have to think for sure he's the top rated horse since 1970.

For sure?

These horses were before my time, so I can't say definitively, but when you factor in Secretariat's superiority at distances beyond 10f - and the ability he showed on turf - I have hard time saying anyone is "for sure" better than him historically.

I think you're right that if you look only at running 7f-10f on the dirt, the Bid is probably the best ever. But as I know you know well, that isn't all there is to the sport. Could Sec have dominated a 7f race like the Malibu the way the Bid did? I'm guessing probably not. But could the Bid do what Sec did in the Belmont and the Man O' War? Probably not.

[Travis Stone]

His schedule leading-up to the Kentucky Derby is insane by today's standards... Hutch/Foy/Fla/Flamingo/Blue Grass... many Derby starters don't even have that many starts period.

[NTamm1215]

Originally Posted by miraja2

For sure?

These horses were before my time, so I can't say definitively, but when you factor in Secretariat's superiority at distances beyond 10f - and the ability he showed on turf - I have hard time saying anyone is "for sure" better than him historically.

I think you're right that if you look only at running 7f-10f on the dirt, the Bid is probably the best ever. But as I know you know well, that isn't all there is to the sport. Could Sec have dominated a 7f race like the Malibu the way the Bid did? I'm guessing probably not. But could the Bid do what Sec did in the Belmont and the Man O' War? Probably not.

Secretariat's win in the first Marlboro Cup was one of his best races as well. The final time was a record and they timed one more furlong to get him at 10fs in 1:57 and 4/5.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by NTamm1215

Secretariat's win in the first Marlboro Cup was one of his best races as well. The final time was a record and they timed one more furlong to get him at 10fs in 1:57 and 4/5.

I was there that day. What a horse he was.

I can still remember when he showed up in the Champagne. Those were the days before speed figures were prevalent, and he showed up off that insane win at Atlantic City in the World's Playground, but was meeting General Assembly. I was shocked when he paid as little as 2:1, but in retrospect, I bet he had overwhelming Sheet numbers.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by miraja2

For sure?

These horses were before my time, so I can't say definitively, but when you factor in Secretariat's superiority at distances beyond 10f - and the ability he showed on turf - I have hard time saying anyone is "for sure" better than him historically.

I said top rated - not necessarily better. There was no 4-year-old season from Secretariat.

To me - Secretariat is hands down the greatest 3-year-old of all-time in terms of how he performed in the triple crown series. It's not even close. But the triple crown series isn't the be all - end all. Mine That Bird ran strongly in it - while horses like Skip Away didn't - and others like Tiznow missed it.

However - Secretariat actually ran 3 pretty darn slow races in his preps leading into the Derby. They found a tooth abscess after his sound Wood Memorial defeat to Angle Light. Obviously he was a brand new horse again after that.

He was defeated in two of his three dirt races against older males. Prove Out absolutely smoked him at 12 furlongs. Big Red's two turf races were both GREAT - but you're talking about American turf racing.

In terms of attempting to rate them - Big Red and Bid are close through their 2yo and 3yo season .. the deciding factor for me is one ran at 4 and the other didn't.

[FATPIANO]

Thanks for posting, The Bid was the greatest ever

[smartbid09]

Originally Posted by Indian Charlie

Paster was a complete monster. He just was unlucky, historically speaking.

I agree. Paster was a monster and it's a shame that he lost when it counted most.