Goldlikova vs Zenyatta

Thunder Gulch · #1 11-15-2010, 02:18 PM

In case anyone missed it or still doesn't understand...boil it down to the facts

http://drf.com/news/goldikova-rules-world

"In her four Group 1 victories in Europe and her Grade 1 Breeders’ Cup Mile triumph, Goldikova was beating 16 winners of 37 Group or Grade 1 races. The overall Group/Grade 1 record of her competition in those five races is 157-37-25-19."

"In her five Grade 1 victories this year, Zenyatta was beating not a single Grade 1 winner. The overall Group/Grade 1 record of her competition in those five races is 28-0-1-2. Moreover, Zenyatta beat just two Grade 2 winners in those five races, St Trinians in the Vanity Handicap and Switch in the Lady's Secret."

randallscott35 · #2 11-15-2010, 02:19 PM

Who cares about facts? Did you not see Zenyatta's dance?

PeteMugg · #3 11-15-2010, 02:39 PM

I'll start by saying that I'm in the camp that doesn't think Zenyatta is worthy of HOTY. However, the article cleverly omits the graded credentials of the horses she put a whoopin on in the classic.

Cannon Shell · #4 11-15-2010, 02:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PeteMugg

I'll start by saying that I'm in the camp that doesn't think Zenyatta is worthy of HOTY. However, the article cleverly omits the graded credentials of the horses she put a whoopin on in the classic.

The thing is that no one is discounting her effort in the classic. The point is that the rest of her campaign is so soft, unlike the other mares.

Smooth Operator · #5 11-15-2010, 03:05 PM

One could compete in $5 million races … the other can compete for no more than $2 million

Top-flight classic distance runners are superior to 8-furlong turf specialists.

Sorry, Goldi fans … just the way it is…

PeteMugg · #6 11-15-2010, 03:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

The thing is that no one is discounting her effort in the classic. The point is that the rest of her campaign is so soft, unlike the other mares.

Chuck, I realize this. I'm just pointing out the fact that stats can be misleading or stacked a certain way. The article is trying to point out a very large difference in the graded credentials that G and Z have defeated this year. I know Z didn't win the classic, but she did shame a lot of horses with a long list of graded achievements.

Cannon Shell · #7 11-15-2010, 03:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Smooth Operator

One could compete in $5 million races … the other can compete for no more than $2 million

Top-flight classic distance runners are superior to 8-furlong turf specialists.

Sorry, Goldi fans … just the way it is…

So Usain Bolt is an inferior athlete to a bunch of skinny guys from Kenya who run marathons?

Greatness is greatness. Goldikova is obviously great.

Being an almost great classic distance runner isnt anything to be ashamed of.

Cannon Shell · #8 11-15-2010, 03:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PeteMugg

Chuck, I realize this. I'm just pointing out the fact that stats can be misleading or stacked a certain way. The article is trying to point out a very large difference in the graded credentials that G and Z have defeated this year. I know Z didn't win the classic, but she did shame a lot of horses with a long list of graded achievements.

She may have finished in front of them in one race but surely you dont think that the stats used here are misleading? Zenyatta's 2010 accomplishments outside of the BC are hardly even noteworthy.

And finishing in front of horses who obviously went amiss like QR is not exactly a major accomplishment. Yeah the BC race was full of accomplished runners she finished ahead of (though many had questionable credentials of their own) but that doesnt excuse the rest of the year.

10 pnt move up · #9 11-15-2010, 03:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

So Usain Bolt is an inferior athlete to a bunch of skinny guys from Kenya who run marathons?

Greatness is greatness. Goldikova is obviously great.

Being an almost great classic distance runner isnt anything to be ashamed of.

she won last year at 10f.......alas you will say that does not count so it seems you cant lose the way you frame your arguments.

Antitrust32 · #10 11-15-2010, 03:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Smooth Operator

One could compete in $5 million races … the other can compete for no more than $2 million

Top-flight classic distance runners are superior to 8-furlong turf specialists.

Sorry, Goldi fans … just the way it is…

what was the top flight classic distance race that Zenyatta won this year?

Also, which of the two horses mentioned actually won a BC race this year?

Sorry Toll Booth fans ... just the way it is...

Cannon Shell · #11 11-15-2010, 03:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 10 pnt move up

she won last year at 10f.......alas you will say that does not count so it seems you cant lose the way you frame your arguments.

So winning the BC Classic makes you great?

No one questions her distance ability, just her greatness...

NTamm1215 · #12 11-15-2010, 03:20 PM

Goldikova won a 9f race this year in track record time. The idea that she's inferior because the majority of her wins are at 8fs is painfully stupid and would be propagated only by someone with a limited to non-existent understanding of horse racing. Who can that be?

hockey2315 · #13 11-15-2010, 03:20 PM

I'd say a mile--on both turf and dirt--is probably where you'd find the toughest races nowadays.

Kasept · #14 11-15-2010, 03:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Smooth Operator

One could compete in $5 million races … the other can compete for no more than $2 million

Top-flight classic distance runners are superior to 8-furlong turf specialists.

Sorry, Goldi fans … just the way it is…

I've had enough. Your ignorance, or trolling, has worn out my patience.

#15 11-15-2010, 03:26 PM

I just did a back flip

Antitrust32 · #16 11-15-2010, 03:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hockey2315

I'd say a mile--on both turf and dirt--is probably where you'd find the toughest races nowadays.

agreed.

I've always thought the BC Mile (the turf edition) was one of the toughest, most competitive races.

Indian Charlie · #17 11-15-2010, 03:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PeteMugg

I'll start by saying that I'm in the camp that doesn't think Zenyatta is worthy of HOTY. However, the article cleverly omits the graded credentials of the horses she put a whoopin on in the classic.

You mean, like Blame?

Indian Charlie · #18 11-15-2010, 03:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kasept

I've had enough. Your ignorance, or trolling, has worn out my patience.

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!

My reason for living has just ended!

Actually, I was going to ask you if it was okay to start up a poll to see if there was anyone on DT more blatantly stupid or annoying than Smoothie.

I guess that won't be necessary now!!!

10 pnt move up · #19 11-15-2010, 03:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

So winning the BC Classic makes you great?

No one questions her distance ability, just her greatness...

winning 14 grade 1 races, two BC races, and losing the other at the wire makes you great...........please name another horse with similar accomplishments that you dont consider great.......I need a frame of reference from your view point, maybe you only consider like 10 horses in the history great.

PeteMugg · #20 11-15-2010, 03:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Indian Charlie

You mean, like Blame?

Hey, IC, I'm right there with you on Blame. I'm not even gonna pretend that Z gets by B with one more jump or two. Blame was better this day. Actually if the Z camp wanted, this could have been the last in a series of Z vs B.
I just think the stats are stacked G's way for the purpose ofthis article.

Chuck, these starts aren't about whether the competition was at it's best. It's about what they've done in graded events. You're correct, G has had more competitive races than Z. It shouldn't need misleading stats to just say so.