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  #1  
Old 11-15-2010, 02:56 PM
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Cannon Shell Cannon Shell is offline
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Originally Posted by PeteMugg View Post
I'll start by saying that I'm in the camp that doesn't think Zenyatta is worthy of HOTY. However, the article cleverly omits the graded credentials of the horses she put a whoopin on in the classic.
The thing is that no one is discounting her effort in the classic. The point is that the rest of her campaign is so soft, unlike the other mares.
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  #2  
Old 11-15-2010, 03:05 PM
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One could compete in $5 million races … the other can compete for no more than $2 million

Top-flight classic distance runners are superior to 8-furlong turf specialists.

Sorry, Goldi fans … just the way it is…
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  #3  
Old 11-15-2010, 03:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Smooth Operator View Post
One could compete in $5 million races … the other can compete for no more than $2 million

Top-flight classic distance runners are superior to 8-furlong turf specialists.

Sorry, Goldi fans … just the way it is…
So Usain Bolt is an inferior athlete to a bunch of skinny guys from Kenya who run marathons?

Greatness is greatness. Goldikova is obviously great.

Being an almost great classic distance runner isnt anything to be ashamed of.
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  #4  
Old 11-15-2010, 03:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Cannon Shell View Post
So Usain Bolt is an inferior athlete to a bunch of skinny guys from Kenya who run marathons?

Greatness is greatness. Goldikova is obviously great.

Being an almost great classic distance runner isnt anything to be ashamed of.
she won last year at 10f.......alas you will say that does not count so it seems you cant lose the way you frame your arguments.
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  #5  
Old 11-15-2010, 03:19 PM
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Originally Posted by 10 pnt move up View Post
she won last year at 10f.......alas you will say that does not count so it seems you cant lose the way you frame your arguments.
So winning the BC Classic makes you great?

No one questions her distance ability, just her greatness...
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  #6  
Old 11-15-2010, 03:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Cannon Shell View Post
So winning the BC Classic makes you great?

No one questions her distance ability, just her greatness...
winning 14 grade 1 races, two BC races, and losing the other at the wire makes you great...........please name another horse with similar accomplishments that you dont consider great.......I need a frame of reference from your view point, maybe you only consider like 10 horses in the history great.
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Old 11-15-2010, 03:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 10 pnt move up View Post
winning 14 grade 1 races, two BC races, and losing the other at the wire makes you great...........please name another horse with similar accomplishments that you dont consider great.......I need a frame of reference from your view point, maybe you only consider like 10 horses in the history great.
It's her level of greatness that's questioned.

As in, like, there is no freaking way she's better than a Secretariat or Spectacular Bid.

Nor is she greater than a number of fillies and mares I can think of in the last 25 years.
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  #8  
Old 11-15-2010, 04:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 10 pnt move up View Post
winning 14 grade 1 races, two BC races, and losing the other at the wire makes you great...........please name another horse with similar accomplishments that you dont consider great.......I need a frame of reference from your view point, maybe you only consider like 10 horses in the history great.
Ignoring the reality of her unique circumstances doesnt eliminate them as a factor in detracting from her accomplishments.
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  #9  
Old 11-16-2010, 09:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 10 pnt move up View Post
winning 14 grade 1 races, two BC races, and losing the other at the wire makes you great...........please name another horse with similar accomplishments that you dont consider great.......I need a frame of reference from your view point, maybe you only consider like 10 horses in the history great.

Not denying her greatness, but the point of the article was to reveal the true quality of those "Grade 1" races in the company of below par California females. So we're talking about +/-4 true G1 fields, one of them in open company on the pro-ride.
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  #10  
Old 11-15-2010, 03:20 PM
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I'd say a mile--on both turf and dirt--is probably where you'd find the toughest races nowadays.
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  #11  
Old 11-15-2010, 03:27 PM
Antitrust32 Antitrust32 is offline
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Originally Posted by hockey2315 View Post
I'd say a mile--on both turf and dirt--is probably where you'd find the toughest races nowadays.
agreed.

I've always thought the BC Mile (the turf edition) was one of the toughest, most competitive races.
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  #12  
Old 11-15-2010, 03:17 PM
Antitrust32 Antitrust32 is offline
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Originally Posted by Smooth Operator View Post
One could compete in $5 million races … the other can compete for no more than $2 million

Top-flight classic distance runners are superior to 8-furlong turf specialists.

Sorry, Goldi fans … just the way it is…
what was the top flight classic distance race that Zenyatta won this year?

Also, which of the two horses mentioned actually won a BC race this year?

Sorry Toll Booth fans ... just the way it is...
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Can I start just making stuff up out of thin air, too?
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  #13  
Old 11-15-2010, 03:20 PM
NTamm1215 NTamm1215 is offline
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Goldikova won a 9f race this year in track record time. The idea that she's inferior because the majority of her wins are at 8fs is painfully stupid and would be propagated only by someone with a limited to non-existent understanding of horse racing. Who can that be?
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  #14  
Old 11-15-2010, 03:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smooth Operator View Post
One could compete in $5 million races … the other can compete for no more than $2 million

Top-flight classic distance runners are superior to 8-furlong turf specialists.

Sorry, Goldi fans … just the way it is…
I've had enough. Your ignorance, or trolling, has worn out my patience.
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  #15  
Old 11-15-2010, 03:26 PM
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I just did a back flip
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  #16  
Old 11-15-2010, 03:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kasept View Post
I've had enough. Your ignorance, or trolling, has worn out my patience.
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!

My reason for living has just ended!

Actually, I was going to ask you if it was okay to start up a poll to see if there was anyone on DT more blatantly stupid or annoying than Smoothie.

I guess that won't be necessary now!!!
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  #17  
Old 11-15-2010, 03:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Indian Charlie View Post
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!

My reason for living has just ended!

Actually, I was going to ask you if it was okay to start up a poll to see if there was anyone on DT more blatantly stupid or annoying than Smoothie.

I guess that won't be necessary now!!!
I'm sorry. It was a tired act. Specifically, a recent repeat of a post designed only to ellicit a response was the tripwire.
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A long habit of not thinking a thing wrong, gives it a superficial appearance of being right. ~ Thomas Paine
Don't let anyone tell you that your dreams can't come true. They are only afraid that theirs won't and yours will. ~ Robert Evans
The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command. ~ George Orwell, 1984.
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  #18  
Old 11-15-2010, 04:02 PM
Antitrust32 Antitrust32 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kasept View Post
I'm sorry. It was a tired act. Specifically, a recent repeat of a post designed only to ellicit a response was the tripwire.
Steve, you deserve HOY for pulling that trigger!
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Can I start just making stuff up out of thin air, too?
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  #19  
Old 11-15-2010, 04:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Antitrust32 View Post
Steve, you deserve HOY for pulling that trigger!
Thank you Lori, but alas, it would be a hollow victory... A make up vote for earlier campaigns when I faced better competition and shipped around the country in pursuit of real challenges. You know, back when I still drank, smoked and was at the top of my game.
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All ambitions are lawful except those which climb upward on the miseries or credulities of mankind. ~ Joseph Conrad
A long habit of not thinking a thing wrong, gives it a superficial appearance of being right. ~ Thomas Paine
Don't let anyone tell you that your dreams can't come true. They are only afraid that theirs won't and yours will. ~ Robert Evans
The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command. ~ George Orwell, 1984.
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  #20  
Old 11-15-2010, 03:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cannon Shell View Post
The thing is that no one is discounting her effort in the classic. The point is that the rest of her campaign is so soft, unlike the other mares.
Chuck, I realize this. I'm just pointing out the fact that stats can be misleading or stacked a certain way. The article is trying to point out a very large difference in the graded credentials that G and Z have defeated this year. I know Z didn't win the classic, but she did shame a lot of horses with a long list of graded achievements.
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