NBC beats Fox for Derby rights

[Dahoss]

Originally Posted by MaTH716

I personally think that's one thing that hurts the sport. Think about how long you handicap, reading the form, charts, watch replays and with all that it's still a very hard game to beat. It's one of the reasons people pefer other forms of gambling. Instant gratification, with no need to do any sort of research. It's unfortunate for the game because I really think it hurts possible future players. But on the flip side, that's what makes the game so great for people who love it. Trying to put that puzzle together and the feeling you get when you do.
Also when it comes to cappin, I personally think the Derby is the worst/hardest race of the year to cap, just because most of the horses have the same running lines. For it to work, you would really need like a handicapping for dummies pre show. But we all know that would never happen. Sure it helps to have guys like Beyer talking about the race, but if 80% of the country have no idea who he is, then you would almost be better off served having a recognizable person giving his or her analysis. You would probably have a better chance of the audience not changing the channel.

It might hurt, but if used the right way I think it could help. Look at Poker. While it's instant gratification winning individual hands, the end goal is to win the tournament or whatever game you are playing. Those things take a long time.

I think if you took 20 people that have never bet or been to a track or casino before....Split them up. 10 of them go with some poker pro's and learn about the game for the day. Then take the other 10 and let them go with Beyer, Crist, Serling, etc. for the day. Let them teach the game and about betting.

Then the next day the 10 poker players go to a casino and play poker for the day. The 10 horseplayers go to a track and play races for the day. IMO, and maybe I'm biased because I'm a horseplayer, those horseplayers would come back again. I'm sure some of the poker players would also. But if people are shown that tracks aren't what the perception is and the game isn't like it's percieved we have a chance.

A little education could go a long way IMO.

[MaTH716]

Originally Posted by Dahoss

It might hurt, but if used the right way I think it could help. Look at Poker. While it's instant gratification winning individual hands, the end goal is to win the tournament or whatever game you are playing. Those things take a long time.

I think if you took 20 people that have never bet or been to a track or casino before....Split them up. 10 of them go with some poker pro's and learn about the game for the day. Then take the other 10 and let them go with Beyer, Crist, Serling, etc. for the day. Let them teach the game and about betting.

Then the next day the 10 poker players go to a casino and play poker for the day. The 10 horseplayers go to a track and play races for the day. IMO, and maybe I'm biased because I'm a horseplayer, those horseplayers would come back again. I'm sure some of the poker players would also. But if people are shown that tracks aren't what the perception is and the game isn't like it's percieved we have a chance.

A little education could go a long way IMO.

Sure tournaments take a long time, but they don't wait 20 minutes in between hands. Many people want/need that constant action.

As far as your experiment goes, I agree (although probably biased like you). There is nothing like a nice afternoon at the track. It beats the hell out of sitting at a card table for an entire day.

A little education could go along way to grabbing some fans. But in the long run, I just think the majority of gamblers don't want to have to invest time doing homework. Then throw in the time it takes in between the races, it just makes the sport not an attractive gambling option to people who are looking for that fast action.

[hi_im_god]

Originally Posted by Dahoss

It might hurt, but if used the right way I think it could help. Look at Poker. While it's instant gratification winning individual hands, the end goal is to win the tournament or whatever game you are playing. Those things take a long time.

I think if you took 20 people that have never bet or been to a track or casino before....Split them up. 10 of them go with some poker pro's and learn about the game for the day. Then take the other 10 and let them go with Beyer, Crist, Serling, etc. for the day. Let them teach the game and about betting.

Then the next day the 10 poker players go to a casino and play poker for the day. The 10 horseplayers go to a track and play races for the day. IMO, and maybe I'm biased because I'm a horseplayer, those horseplayers would come back again. I'm sure some of the poker players would also. But if people are shown that tracks aren't what the perception is and the game isn't like it's percieved we have a chance.

A little education could go a long way IMO.

poker's television success was all about the "peek" camera giving the viewer an imagined way to be part of the action. there are a few video's available of wsop events from the 80's and they're like watching paint dry.

wpt's innovation of showing viewers the hidden cards made the difference and led to the explosion of interest in poker. the right technology met the right production idea.

i'm not sure you'll ever see anything similar in racing. they keep trying with blimp shots, helmet cam's and tracking camera's but none of that revolutionizes the experience of the viewer the way knowing more than all the players at the poker table does.

i play poker and bet horses. handicapping races successfuly is magnitudes of difficulty harder than winning at cards. i don't think there's any way you can "educate" a general audience on handicapping in a way that doesn't drive most of them to another channel.

any bump in audience is good. even if the cost is 45 minutes of commercials and fluff for every 2 minutes of racing.

[Dahoss]

Originally Posted by hi_im_god

i play poker and bet horses. handicapping races successfuly is magnitudes of difficulty harder than winning at cards. i don't think there's any way you can "educate" a general audience on handicapping in a way that doesn't drive most of them to another channel.

If you can educate just one person, it would be a good start. The problem is, a lot of the times the "experts" aren't experts at all. There are some really sharp minds in horse racing and people with a lifetime of knowledge.

What I'm suggesting is, on big race days, instead of 90% of the TV coverage being about fluff, split it up a bit. Introduce some of the basics and do a little teaching. It could be incorporated into the upcoming race. What is the worst that could happen? A few more people become interested in betting, because they know more about it and won't feel like they are wasting their time.

Horse racing tries to be something it isn't. Instead of embracing what it is, the want to make themselves Disney and it isn't.

[MaTH716]

Originally Posted by Dahoss

If you can educate just one person, it would be a good start. The problem is, a lot of the times the "experts" aren't experts at all. There are some really sharp minds in horse racing and people with a lifetime of knowledge.

What I'm suggesting is, on big race days, instead of 90% of the TV coverage being about fluff, split it up a bit. Introduce some of the basics and do a little teaching. It could be incorporated into the upcoming race. What is the worst that could happen? A few more people become interested in betting, because they know more about it and won't feel like they are wasting their time.

Horse racing tries to be something it isn't. Instead of embracing what it is, the want to make themselves Disney and it isn't.

Realistically, this is something that should be done to a level on racing channels such as TVG and HRTV. I'll use TVG as an example (because that the only one I have), but they really don't do things like that and they are a full time racing channel. Sure they give out picks and (usually ridculous) pick 4 plays. But they really don't have kind of basic handicapping teaching show. I don't know what percentages of households have one of the channels, but maybe that would be the way to go. A major network would only cover so much time in a segment about basic capping. But have TVG sponser the spot and then have them promote their daily handicapping show/series. This way if someone is interested about exploring different types of angles/bets, he/she would be able to tune in and maybe pick something up.

Really what harm could it do for TVG to produce 5 one hour shows and air them one a day in the morning before live racing starts? It could benifit them for current and possible future customers.