Unless the Packers score 30 points or more tonight...

[Dahoss]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

The good thing is that - other than Vince Wilfork - there isn't anyone left on that defense that can't be replaced by a journeyman.

As other teams defensive players get beat up and injured - you will see other defenses become worse.

As long as Wilfork doesn't get injured - the Pats defense shouldn't be any worse .. and considering how young they are .. they might only get a little better.

It's not anything to feel good about... but, whatever.

Defense wins championships. Which is why all of those high powered Randy Moss offenses have a total of zero rings.

It's very early, but if you look at the Pats realistically they are going to need to drastically improve on defense to be a factor as the season wears on. Considering they have little talent on d, I just don't see how that is going to happen.

They'll score points in bunches, but you have to be able to stop teams also. They haven't shown they are able to do that.

[RockHardTen1985]

Originally Posted by Dahoss

Defense wins championships. Which is why all of those high powered Randy Moss offenses have a total of zero rings.

It's very early, but if you look at the Pats realistically they are going to need to drastically improve on defense to be a factor as the season wears on. Considering they have little talent on d, I just don't see how that is going to happen.

They'll score points in bunches, but you have to be able to stop teams also. They haven't shown they are able to do that.

Defense wins what?

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by Dahoss

Defense wins championships.

If that were true - Ray Lewis would have more than just one ring despite playing on several incredible defensive units.

Teams win championships.

Tony Banks, Trent Dilfer, Elvis Gerback, Kyle Boller, and Joe Flacco at QB screwed him out of a lot of jewlery.

Hell - if the Ravens didn't block a field goal and return for a TD in the playoff win against the Titans the year they won the super bowl .. Lewis would have zero rings.

[Dahoss]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

If that were true - Ray Lewis would have more than just one ring despite playing on several incredible defensive units.

Teams win championships.

Tony Banks, Trent Dilfer, Elvis Gerback, Kyle Boller, and Joe Flacco at QB screwed him out of a lot of jewlery.

The fact that Trent Dilfer has a ring proves my point. Of course the best defense isn't going to win every year. But the better defenses are usually the teams that go far in the playoffs and win.

It's not an opinion, these are facts.

[clyde]

Originally Posted by Dahoss

The fact that Trent Dilfer has a ring proves my point. Of course the best defense isn't going to win every year. But the better defenses are usually the teams that go far in the playoffs and win.

It's not an opinion, these are facts.

OOOOOOOOOO

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by Dahoss

The fact that Trent Dilfer has a ring proves my point.

That team had 4 Hall of Fame candidates either in the backfield or on the offensive line.

Jamal Lewis and Preist Holmes were both elite NFL running backs. Shannon Sharpe is a soon to be hall of fame tight end. And Johnathon Ogden is a soon to be hall of fame tackle.

That offense could run the ball very well.

[clyde]

How many points did that offense score--if you know.

yo...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z39MZgsd_KM

[Dahoss]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

That team had 4 Hall of Fame candidates either in the backfield or on the offensive line.

Jamal Lewis and Preist Holmes were both elite NFL running backs. Shannon Sharpe is a soon to be hall of fame tight end. And Johnathon Ogden is a soon to be hall of fame tackle.

That offense could run the ball very well.

Dude, that offense went 5 games without scoring a touchdown during the season. During the playoffs and Super Bowl they allowed a total of 23 points in 4 games.

The defense set records for fewest points allowed and fewest rushing yards allowed during the regular season.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by Dahoss

Dude, that offense went 5 games without scoring a touchdown during the season. During the playoffs and Super Bowl they allowed a total of 23 points in 4 games.

The defense set records for fewest points allowed and fewest rushing yards allowed during the regular season.

I watched every game that team played.

I had a future bet on them to win at all - and picked them to win the Super Bowl at the start of the year - and was incredibly stubborn and unwavering throughout the year and steadfast they'd still win it all despite everyone mocking me and that Ravens team.

It's not redboarding - the furthest thing in the history of the entire world from because of how bull headed I was from start to finish - several posters here Indian Charlie, Tector, etc. remember it well.

They also remember me doing the same thing when the equally impossible Patriots team with Drew Bledsoe won it all.

That Ravens team could run the ball - once they got into the redzone it wasn't always pretty because the field tightens. Offense that can eat clock and get 3 points - and not turn it over a bunch - are especially dangerous when coupled with strong defenses.

[philcski]

Originally Posted by Dahoss

Defense wins championships. Which is why all of those high powered Randy Moss offenses have a total of zero rings.

It's very early, but if you look at the Pats realistically they are going to need to drastically improve on defense to be a factor as the season wears on. Considering they have little talent on d, I just don't see how that is going to happen.

They'll score points in bunches, but you have to be able to stop teams also. They haven't shown they are able to do that.

2009 Saints 25th Defense 1st Offense
2008 Steelers 1st Defense 22nd Offense
2007 Giants 7th Defense 16th Offense
2006 Colts 21st Defense 3rd Offense
2005 Steelers 4th Defense 15th Offense
2004 Patriots 9th Defense 7th Offense
2003 Patriots 7th Defense 17th Offense
2002 Bucs 1st Defense 24th Offense
2001 Patriots 24th Defense 19th Offense
2000 Ravens 2nd Defense 16th Offense

Couple things to note- Defense is important but not the be all-end all. The more the rules change the more it means less than offense rather than more- note that if the Steelers don't pull off a great drive with a minute left in the SB, it's the 25th, 19th, 7th, and 21st ranked defenses over the last 4 years. Not exactly a stellar defensive group.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by philcski

2009 Saints 25th Defense 1st Offense
2008 Steelers 1st Defense 22nd Offense
2007 Giants 7th Defense 16th Offense
2006 Colts 21st Defense 3rd Offense
2005 Steelers 4th Defense 15th Offense
2004 Patriots 9th Defense 7th Offense
2003 Patriots 7th Defense 17th Offense
2002 Bucs 1st Defense 24th Offense
2001 Patriots 24th Defense 19th Offense
2000 Ravens 2nd Defense 16th Offense

Couple things to note- Defense is important but not the be all-end all. The more the rules change the more it means less than offense rather than more- note that if the Steelers don't pull off a great drive with a minute left in the SB, it's the 25th, 19th, 7th, and 21st ranked defenses over the last 4 years. Not exactly a stellar defensive group.

I dont agree that defense isnt still extremely important. overall rankings in football are flawed because teams with great offenses strike quickly and often which means that the defense is on the field longer than expected and often with a big lead they play softer, stop blitzing, use zone coverage, etc. Of the teams listed outside of the flukey 2001 Pats, the Super Bowl winners almost always have a top 10 defense OR they are the top 3 offenses in the game. 70% of winners were barely in the top 15 offenses.

[ateamstupid]

Originally Posted by philcski

2009 Saints 25th Defense 1st Offense
2008 Steelers 1st Defense 22nd Offense
2007 Giants 7th Defense 16th Offense
2006 Colts 21st Defense 3rd Offense
2005 Steelers 4th Defense 15th Offense
2004 Patriots 9th Defense 7th Offense
2003 Patriots 7th Defense 17th Offense
2002 Bucs 1st Defense 24th Offense
2001 Patriots 24th Defense 19th Offense
2000 Ravens 2nd Defense 16th Offense

Couple things to note- Defense is important but not the be all-end all. The more the rules change the more it means less than offense rather than more- note that if the Steelers don't pull off a great drive with a minute left in the SB, it's the 25th, 19th, 7th, and 21st ranked defenses over the last 4 years. Not exactly a stellar defensive group.

Your stats seem to prove Hoss' point. 3 defenses 15th or lower won, as opposed to 7 in the top 10. 7 offenses 15th or lower won, while 3 in the top 10 won.

[philcski]

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

Your stats seem to prove Hoss' point. 3 defenses 15th or lower won, as opposed to 7 in the top 10. 7 offenses 15th or lower won, while 3 in the top 10 won.

I'm not disagreeing that a defense is still important- I said that it is, and I think that upgrading a defense allows a team to be competitive quicker. However, I'm suggesting that there has a been a fundamental shift in the rules over the past 5 years (pass interference called tighter, less ability to attack the QB, more protection of the ballcarrier with horse collar tackles disallowed, no more 5 yard facemask (all 15), no more "football move" required on catches [except, apparently, in the end zone Calvin Johnson], "defenseless receiver" rule, etc), which has allowed weak defensive teams to be serious contenders, and win championships.

[clyde]

Originally Posted by philcski

I'm not disagreeing that a defense is still important- I said that it is, and I think that upgrading a defense allows a team to be competitive quicker. However, I'm suggesting that there has a been a fundamental shift in the rules over the past 5 years (pass interference called tighter, less ability to attack the QB, more protection of the ballcarrier with horse collar tackles disallowed, no more 5 yard facemask (all 15), no more "football move" required on catches [except, apparently, in the end zone Calvin Johnson], "defenseless receiver" rule, etc), which has allowed weak defensive teams to be serious contenders, and win championships.

Of course..pretty obvious.They fucl<ed with the game because offense brings in more money.

[Dahoss]

Originally Posted by philcski

2009 Saints 25th Defense 1st Offense
2008 Steelers 1st Defense 22nd Offense
2007 Giants 7th Defense 16th Offense
2006 Colts 21st Defense 3rd Offense
2005 Steelers 4th Defense 15th Offense
2004 Patriots 9th Defense 7th Offense
2003 Patriots 7th Defense 17th Offense
2002 Bucs 1st Defense 24th Offense
2001 Patriots 24th Defense 19th Offense
2000 Ravens 2nd Defense 16th Offense

Couple things to note- Defense is important but not the be all-end all. The more the rules change the more it means less than offense rather than more- note that if the Steelers don't pull off a great drive with a minute left in the SB, it's the 25th, 19th, 7th, and 21st ranked defenses over the last 4 years. Not exactly a stellar defensive group.

Couple things to note- I never said it was the be all-end all. Your stats prove how important having a good defense is. Of course there are exceptions, but you have to be able to stop your opposition. This is true for most of the major sports. Getting back the the crux of the thread, the Pats can't stop anyone right now. Because of this it's going to be extremely hard for them to make the playoffs.

[ateamstupid]

Originally Posted by Dahoss

Couple things to note- I never said it was the be all-end all. Your stats prove how important having a good defense is. Of course there are exceptions, but you have to be able to stop your opposition. This is true for most of the major sports. Getting back the the crux of the thread, the Pats can't stop anyone right now. Because of this it's going to be extremely hard for them to make the playoffs.

JUST GIVE THEM TIME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[philcski]

Originally Posted by clyde

Of course..pretty obvious.They fucl<ed with the game because offense brings in more money.

Agreed.

Originally Posted by Dahoss

Couple things to note- I never said it was the be all-end all. Your stats prove how important having a good defense is. Of course there are exceptions, but you have to be able to stop your opposition. This is true for most of the major sports. Getting back the the crux of the thread, the Pats can't stop anyone right now. Because of this it's going to be extremely hard for them to make the playoffs.

"Defense wins championships" is saying "be all end all" in my opinion. Maybe that's not to the degree that you meant.

Because of their schedule, the Pats will probably make the playoffs (and lose in the first round.) They have three road games against Buffalo, Detroit, and Cleveland- which means they could lose a game at home and still be 10-6 which should be good enough. If they get one of Miami (unlikely), SD (possible), Pitt (very unlikely), Chicago (possible)- they are 11-5 and definitely in. Jets also have the same trifecta on the road which is huge for their chances of winning the division, because at this point all they need to do is keep pace with the tiebreakers in the pocket. Miami, on the other hand, gets trips to GB, CIN, BAL, OAK, NYJ, and NE left- so even with the two road wins in hand have only 1 game left where they will definitely be favored. And even in that game, Oakland is putrid but not Buf-Det-Cle bad. They are a missed chip shot from 2-1 right now. It would be tough for the AFC East to get both wild cards, because either Cincy, Balt, or Indy/Hou/Tenn will probably get one of them, so it's a 3 for 2.

[clyde]

With more rule changes than you mentioned ,ThePhilski......it's Defense wins titles a lot more than offense.


I'll take the best def. over the best off.... every time.

[Scav]

I can't figure out if both these teams are just really bad or if the Bears really do have a chance this year.