Unless the Packers score 30 points or more tonight...

[RockHardTen1985]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

New England will lead the entire NFL in points scored through 3 weeks.

And - according to ATeam's flashy DVOA stats ... the three teams they've played so far this year were ranked as the #1, #3, and #10 pass defenses in the NFL in 2009.

So, despite playing 3 top ten defenses against the pass from last year - and three top 13 defenses overall from last year - including the #1 ranked Jets on both categories - the Pats will have scored more than anyone else.

Just another typical Moss made offense .. if only they also let him play cornerback opposite of the rookie McCourty.

When will people see it? He is the best EVER.

[Dahoss]

Pats have also given up 82 points in just three games. Good enough for 5th highest in the league. Good luck the rest of the year giving up that many points.

[randallscott35]

If that dumb stat makes you feel better Doug so be it.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by randallscott35

If that dumb stat makes you feel better Doug so be it.

If you actually played football - instead of tennis - you'd know that the job of the offense is simply to try to score points and to not turn the ball over.

The job of the defense is simply to try to not allow points and force turnovers.

The job of the special teams is a little less simple.

[randallscott35]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

If you actually played football - instead of tennis - you'd know that the job of the offense is simply to try to score points and to not turn the ball over.

The job of the defense is simply to try to not allow points and force turnovers.

The job of the special teams is a little less simple.

3 games. Your defense is a laugh.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by Dahoss

Pats have also given up 82 points in just three games. Good enough for 5th highest in the league. Good luck the rest of the year giving up that many points.

The good thing is that - other than Vince Wilfork - there isn't anyone left on that defense that can't be replaced by a journeyman.

As other teams key defensive players get beat up and injured - you will see some other defenses become worse.

As long as Wilfork doesn't get injured - the Pats defense shouldn't be any worse .. and considering how young they are .. they might only get a little better.

It's not anything to feel good about... but, whatever.

[Dahoss]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

The good thing is that - other than Vince Wilfork - there isn't anyone left on that defense that can't be replaced by a journeyman.

As other teams defensive players get beat up and injured - you will see other defenses become worse.

As long as Wilfork doesn't get injured - the Pats defense shouldn't be any worse .. and considering how young they are .. they might only get a little better.

It's not anything to feel good about... but, whatever.

Defense wins championships. Which is why all of those high powered Randy Moss offenses have a total of zero rings.

It's very early, but if you look at the Pats realistically they are going to need to drastically improve on defense to be a factor as the season wears on. Considering they have little talent on d, I just don't see how that is going to happen.

They'll score points in bunches, but you have to be able to stop teams also. They haven't shown they are able to do that.

[RockHardTen1985]

Originally Posted by Dahoss

Defense wins championships. Which is why all of those high powered Randy Moss offenses have a total of zero rings.

It's very early, but if you look at the Pats realistically they are going to need to drastically improve on defense to be a factor as the season wears on. Considering they have little talent on d, I just don't see how that is going to happen.

They'll score points in bunches, but you have to be able to stop teams also. They haven't shown they are able to do that.

Defense wins what?

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by Dahoss

Defense wins championships.

If that were true - Ray Lewis would have more than just one ring despite playing on several incredible defensive units.

Teams win championships.

Tony Banks, Trent Dilfer, Elvis Gerback, Kyle Boller, and Joe Flacco at QB screwed him out of a lot of jewlery.

Hell - if the Ravens didn't block a field goal and return for a TD in the playoff win against the Titans the year they won the super bowl .. Lewis would have zero rings.

[Dahoss]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

If that were true - Ray Lewis would have more than just one ring despite playing on several incredible defensive units.

Teams win championships.

Tony Banks, Trent Dilfer, Elvis Gerback, Kyle Boller, and Joe Flacco at QB screwed him out of a lot of jewlery.

The fact that Trent Dilfer has a ring proves my point. Of course the best defense isn't going to win every year. But the better defenses are usually the teams that go far in the playoffs and win.

It's not an opinion, these are facts.

[clyde]

Originally Posted by Dahoss

The fact that Trent Dilfer has a ring proves my point. Of course the best defense isn't going to win every year. But the better defenses are usually the teams that go far in the playoffs and win.

It's not an opinion, these are facts.

OOOOOOOOOO

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by Dahoss

The fact that Trent Dilfer has a ring proves my point.

That team had 4 Hall of Fame candidates either in the backfield or on the offensive line.

Jamal Lewis and Preist Holmes were both elite NFL running backs. Shannon Sharpe is a soon to be hall of fame tight end. And Johnathon Ogden is a soon to be hall of fame tackle.

That offense could run the ball very well.

[philcski]

Originally Posted by Dahoss

Defense wins championships. Which is why all of those high powered Randy Moss offenses have a total of zero rings.

It's very early, but if you look at the Pats realistically they are going to need to drastically improve on defense to be a factor as the season wears on. Considering they have little talent on d, I just don't see how that is going to happen.

They'll score points in bunches, but you have to be able to stop teams also. They haven't shown they are able to do that.

2009 Saints 25th Defense 1st Offense
2008 Steelers 1st Defense 22nd Offense
2007 Giants 7th Defense 16th Offense
2006 Colts 21st Defense 3rd Offense
2005 Steelers 4th Defense 15th Offense
2004 Patriots 9th Defense 7th Offense
2003 Patriots 7th Defense 17th Offense
2002 Bucs 1st Defense 24th Offense
2001 Patriots 24th Defense 19th Offense
2000 Ravens 2nd Defense 16th Offense

Couple things to note- Defense is important but not the be all-end all. The more the rules change the more it means less than offense rather than more- note that if the Steelers don't pull off a great drive with a minute left in the SB, it's the 25th, 19th, 7th, and 21st ranked defenses over the last 4 years. Not exactly a stellar defensive group.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by philcski

2009 Saints 25th Defense 1st Offense
2008 Steelers 1st Defense 22nd Offense
2007 Giants 7th Defense 16th Offense
2006 Colts 21st Defense 3rd Offense
2005 Steelers 4th Defense 15th Offense
2004 Patriots 9th Defense 7th Offense
2003 Patriots 7th Defense 17th Offense
2002 Bucs 1st Defense 24th Offense
2001 Patriots 24th Defense 19th Offense
2000 Ravens 2nd Defense 16th Offense

Couple things to note- Defense is important but not the be all-end all. The more the rules change the more it means less than offense rather than more- note that if the Steelers don't pull off a great drive with a minute left in the SB, it's the 25th, 19th, 7th, and 21st ranked defenses over the last 4 years. Not exactly a stellar defensive group.

I dont agree that defense isnt still extremely important. overall rankings in football are flawed because teams with great offenses strike quickly and often which means that the defense is on the field longer than expected and often with a big lead they play softer, stop blitzing, use zone coverage, etc. Of the teams listed outside of the flukey 2001 Pats, the Super Bowl winners almost always have a top 10 defense OR they are the top 3 offenses in the game. 70% of winners were barely in the top 15 offenses.

[ateamstupid]

Originally Posted by philcski

2009 Saints 25th Defense 1st Offense
2008 Steelers 1st Defense 22nd Offense
2007 Giants 7th Defense 16th Offense
2006 Colts 21st Defense 3rd Offense
2005 Steelers 4th Defense 15th Offense
2004 Patriots 9th Defense 7th Offense
2003 Patriots 7th Defense 17th Offense
2002 Bucs 1st Defense 24th Offense
2001 Patriots 24th Defense 19th Offense
2000 Ravens 2nd Defense 16th Offense

Couple things to note- Defense is important but not the be all-end all. The more the rules change the more it means less than offense rather than more- note that if the Steelers don't pull off a great drive with a minute left in the SB, it's the 25th, 19th, 7th, and 21st ranked defenses over the last 4 years. Not exactly a stellar defensive group.

Your stats seem to prove Hoss' point. 3 defenses 15th or lower won, as opposed to 7 in the top 10. 7 offenses 15th or lower won, while 3 in the top 10 won.

[philcski]

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

Your stats seem to prove Hoss' point. 3 defenses 15th or lower won, as opposed to 7 in the top 10. 7 offenses 15th or lower won, while 3 in the top 10 won.

I'm not disagreeing that a defense is still important- I said that it is, and I think that upgrading a defense allows a team to be competitive quicker. However, I'm suggesting that there has a been a fundamental shift in the rules over the past 5 years (pass interference called tighter, less ability to attack the QB, more protection of the ballcarrier with horse collar tackles disallowed, no more 5 yard facemask (all 15), no more "football move" required on catches [except, apparently, in the end zone Calvin Johnson], "defenseless receiver" rule, etc), which has allowed weak defensive teams to be serious contenders, and win championships.

[Dahoss]

Originally Posted by philcski

2009 Saints 25th Defense 1st Offense
2008 Steelers 1st Defense 22nd Offense
2007 Giants 7th Defense 16th Offense
2006 Colts 21st Defense 3rd Offense
2005 Steelers 4th Defense 15th Offense
2004 Patriots 9th Defense 7th Offense
2003 Patriots 7th Defense 17th Offense
2002 Bucs 1st Defense 24th Offense
2001 Patriots 24th Defense 19th Offense
2000 Ravens 2nd Defense 16th Offense

Couple things to note- Defense is important but not the be all-end all. The more the rules change the more it means less than offense rather than more- note that if the Steelers don't pull off a great drive with a minute left in the SB, it's the 25th, 19th, 7th, and 21st ranked defenses over the last 4 years. Not exactly a stellar defensive group.

Couple things to note- I never said it was the be all-end all. Your stats prove how important having a good defense is. Of course there are exceptions, but you have to be able to stop your opposition. This is true for most of the major sports. Getting back the the crux of the thread, the Pats can't stop anyone right now. Because of this it's going to be extremely hard for them to make the playoffs.

[ateamstupid]

Originally Posted by Dahoss

Couple things to note- I never said it was the be all-end all. Your stats prove how important having a good defense is. Of course there are exceptions, but you have to be able to stop your opposition. This is true for most of the major sports. Getting back the the crux of the thread, the Pats can't stop anyone right now. Because of this it's going to be extremely hard for them to make the playoffs.

JUST GIVE THEM TIME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by RockHardTen1985

When will people see it? He is the best EVER.

I'm pretty troubled that you see it.

When the offensive line is competent enough to allow Moss a chance to run deep - it is supposed to create a veritable juggernaught of offensive production.

It makes everyone in the system at the skill positions perform vastly better - though it does stress the offensive line far more than a West Coast offense.

It is a sad truth that he doesn't play defense or special teams - and since he is not a quarterback and running back - and the defenses first focus is to stop him - he will only touch the ball a handfull of times a game. In an era of stats and fantasy sports popularity ... the true greatness of the Moss made offense gets over looked.

When guys like Wes Welker and Danny Woodhead (a faster, shorter Welker) inevitably go to the Pro Bowl - despite both being undrafted and having no prior success in the NFL ... you'll know why. Because of the space they exploit in the middle created by Moss. They are smart little guys - who cut well.

Eight different QB's played the best football of there life in his offensive. And the few who didn't ... it was because the Raiders O-line couldn't pass block long enough to complete a three step drop .. let alone pass block long enough for the man to run double moves at change-up pitch speed on deep balls.

Tell me you don't see it Joseph ... because if you actually see it ... I'm deeply concerned.

[RockHardTen1985]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

I'm pretty troubled that you see it.

When the offensive line is competent enough to allow Moss a chance to run deep - it is supposed to create a veritable juggernaught of offensive production.

It makes everyone in the system at the skill positions perform vastly better - though it does stress the offensive line far more than a West Coast offense.

It is a sad truth that he doesn't play defense or special teams - and since he is not a quarterback and running back - and the defenses first focus is to stop him - he will only touch the ball a handfull of times a game. In an era of stats and fantasy sports popularity ... the true greatness of the Moss made offense gets over looked.

When guys like Wes Welker and Danny Woodhead (a faster, shorter Welker) inevitably go to the Pro Bowl - despite both being undrafted and having no prior success in the NFL ... you'll know why. Because of the space they exploit in the middle created by Moss.

Eight different QB's played the best football of there life in his offensive. And the few who didn't ... it was because the Raiders O-line couldn't pass block long enough to complete a three step drop .. let alone pass block long enough for the man to run double moves at change-ball pitch speed on deep balls.

Tell me you don't see it Joseph ... because if you actually see it ... I'm deeply concerned.

Dude with or without you Randy Moss is the best NFL player ever. He demands a double and triple team. He is Jordan and Lebron... He makes EVERYONE ELSE BETTER.