Best Maiden Race of the meet so far...

Sightseek · #1 08-13-2010, 09:12 AM

I'm never betting a Violette firster again...

In the TDN Berkelhammer and Nicks said they basically last minute decided to buy Valiant Passion and didn't even vet her. They also dangled the "for sale" sign after yesterday.

RockHardTen1985 · #2 08-13-2010, 09:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sightseek

I'm never betting a Violette firster again...

In the TDN Berkelhammer and Nicks said they basically last minute decided to buy Valiant Passion and didn't even vet her. They also dangled the "for sale" sign after yesterday.

I know, because now Rick is only 22% first time out, with a $2.46ROI the past 3 years.
16 second place finishes, 10 thirds....

RockHardTen1985 · #3 08-13-2010, 09:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RockHardTen1985

I know, because now Rick is only 22% first time out, with a $2.46ROI the past 3 years.
16 second place finishes, 10 thirds....

Quote:

Originally Posted by RockHardTen1985

I know, because now Rick is only 22% first time out, with a $2.46ROI the past 3 years.
16 second place finishes, 10 thirds....

..

Sightseek · #4 08-13-2010, 09:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RockHardTen1985

..

Can you break that down to Saratoga only? Was it last year that nearly every debuter he had went out 3/5 and didn't run to it?

RockHardTen1985 · #5 08-13-2010, 09:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sightseek

Can you break that down to Saratoga only? Was it last year that nearly every debuter he had went out 3/5 and didn't run to it?

Ill get you Toga...But you never said Toga you said first time out. HE RUNS BELMONT, HE DOMINATES THE BABY RACES, His firsters run Todds into the ground.

RockHardTen1985 · #6 08-13-2010, 09:46 AM

Sightseek... The Toga numbers are solid enough, if not really good.

13/63 16% $2.27ROI first out, Toga past 3 years.

Sightseek · #7 08-13-2010, 09:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RockHardTen1985

Sightseek... The Toga numbers are solid enough, if not really good.

13/63 16% $2.27ROI first out, Toga past 3 years.

Thanks for looking.

Sightseek · #8 08-13-2010, 09:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RockHardTen1985

Ill get you Toga...But you never said Toga you said first time out. HE RUNS BELMONT, HE DOMINATES THE BABY RACES, His firsters run Todds into the ground.

Kind of like that firster you started a thread about this spring that did nothing?

Dahoss · #9 08-13-2010, 09:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sightseek

I'm never betting a Violette firster again...

One of the most overrated trainers in the game IMO. He's good with horses making their debut and for that reason alone he continues to get expensive horses that run one or two good races and then you need a searchlight to find them.

RockHardTen1985 · #10 08-13-2010, 09:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dahoss

One of the most overrated trainers in the game IMO. He's good with horses making their debut and for that reason alone he continues to get expensive horses that run one or two good races and then you need a searchlight to find them.

Its actually only one good race most of the time. He pops with a price on turf every so often, last week with Garcia last year at Toga with a NY bred that I forget the name of.
He bring Not Macho Any More back on Saturday, I think that race sets up nicely for him, but I have the same concerns you have... Bulls and Bears came back at Gulfstream and looked like a POS.
Sightseeks comment was a firster, and I dont see any problem betting him first out. I bet him first out when he beat Stay Thirsty.... You can still get a very fair price if Todd, Steve or anyone else has a big name horse going.

Dahoss · #11 08-13-2010, 09:35 AM

The guys firsters all get bet. I'm not sure how that equates to getting a fair price on them, but it's 2010. Everyone is privy to the same stats that show how good he does first out.

It's a catch 22, because you almost have to use his horses, but they rarely offer value IMO.

Sightseek · #12 08-13-2010, 09:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dahoss

The guys firsters all get bet. I'm not sure how that equates to getting a fair price on them, but it's 2010. Everyone is privy to the same stats that show how good he does first out.

It's a catch 22, because you almost have to use his horses, but they rarely offer value IMO.

Exactly.

ateamstupid · #13 08-13-2010, 09:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dahoss

One of the most overrated trainers in the game IMO. He's good with horses making their debut and for that reason alone he continues to get expensive horses that run one or two good races and then you need a searchlight to find them.

He's screwed me out of nice scores twice in the past three years by not having his big debut winners ready for stakes. Cribnote going to buy a beer in the grandstand in '08 and It's the Big Cat forgetting how to break from the gate this year. Like you said, he can win first time out and that's about it.

NTamm1215 · #14 08-13-2010, 09:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

He's screwed me out of nice scores twice in the past three years by not having his big debut winners ready for stakes. Cribnote going to buy a beer in the grandstand in '08 and It's the Big Cat forgetting how to break from the gate this year. Like you said, he can win first time out and that's about it.

The only winner he has in a graded stake with a 2YO over the last five years is Worstcasescenario's win in the Adirondack last year. He also seems to have really stupid things happen in these races like Cribnote losing his mind, BUlls and BEars getting left, Bail Out the Cat being unprepared for the start, etc.

NT

ateamstupid · #15 08-13-2010, 09:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NTamm1215

The only winner he has in a graded stake with a 2YO over the last five years is Worstcasescenario's win in the Adirondack last year. He also seems to have really stupid things happen in these races like Cribnote losing his mind, BUlls and BEars getting left, Bail Out the Cat being unprepared for the start, etc.

NT

Yeah, Bail Out the Cat, that's the horse. I got him confused with a rat NY-bred turf horse. It's the Big Cat at least could've broken with the field.

RockHardTen1985 · #16 08-13-2010, 09:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NTamm1215

The only winner he has in a graded stake with a 2YO over the last five years is Worstcasescenario's win in the Adirondack last year. He also seems to have really stupid things happen in these races like Cribnote losing his mind, BUlls and BEars getting left, Bail Out the Cat being unprepared for the start, etc.

NT

I dont like Rick V bashing, please stop.

ateamstupid · #17 08-16-2010, 09:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NTamm1215

The only winner he has in a graded stake with a 2YO over the last five years is Worstcasescenario's win in the Adirondack last year. He also seems to have really stupid things happen in these races like Cribnote losing his mind, BUlls and BEars getting left, Bail Out the Cat being unprepared for the start, etc.

NT

Another brilliant training job by Violette with Bail Out the Cat today, who apparently still doesn't know how to break correctly.

The Indomitable DrugS · #18 08-17-2010, 06:10 AM

On top of these numbers:

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

Rick Violette with 2yo's on dirt at Saratoga since '98:

24-for-88 (27.3%) $3.86 ROI

In 2yo dirt races at Saratoga that are 5.5fs or shorter:

15-for-41 (36.6% wins) $4.45 ROI

Here's Violette's stats with 2-year-olds at Belmont's Spring meet:

2010: 3-for-5 ($3.34 ROI)
2009: 3-for-5 ($4.62 ROI)
2008: 1-for-3 ($3.53 ROI)
2007: 2-for-6 ($4.20 ROI)
2006: 0-for-4
2005: 2-for-6 ($4.79 ROI)
2004: 2-for-6 ($4.32 ROI)

Since '04: 13-for-35 (37.1% wins)

He's also got a very good record with older turf horses at Saratoga going back a long way .. and juiced up his numbers some more with a 17/1 shot winner in yesterdays first race.

I wish all trainers were as consistant as he is in regard to the form patterns of their stable.

RockHardTen1985 · #19 08-17-2010, 10:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

On top of these numbers:

Here's Violette's stats with 2-year-olds at Belmont's Spring meet:

2010: 3-for-5 ($3.34 ROI)
2009: 3-for-5 ($4.62 ROI)
2008: 1-for-3 ($3.53 ROI)
2007: 2-for-6 ($4.20 ROI)
2006: 0-for-4
2005: 2-for-6 ($4.79 ROI)
2004: 2-for-6 ($4.32 ROI)

Since '04: 13-for-35 (37.1% wins)

He's also got a very good record with older turf horses at Saratoga going back a long way .. and juiced up his numbers some more with a 17/1 shot winner in yesterdays first race.

I wish all trainers were as consistant as he is in regard to the form patterns of their stable.

Doug, what happens to all of his first out winners though? I know Im getting really frustrated with them.

RockHardTen1985 · #20 08-13-2010, 09:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

He's screwed me out of nice scores twice in the past three years by not having his big debut winners ready for stakes. Cribnote going to buy a beer in the grandstand in '08 and It's the Big Cat forgetting how to break from the gate this year. Like you said, he can win first time out and that's about it.

Its been three times for me your 2, plus Bulls and Bears.