Obama taking away constitutional rights?

[Honu]

Originally Posted by Riot

How DARE Obama try to improve the health of our citizens! That's an impeachable offense, surely!

How dare he say he has the right tooo!!!!!!!!! If people want to live their lives like hogs and smoke and drink and eat KFC its their right . You dont even come close to getting what this means.....its now an order.
Why would you feel comfortable with anyone telling you jack squat about how to eat, drink and live ? Behavior modification is a pretty strong word and it could and might entail anything . I hope the first house they come to is yours and his order tells you what to eat and drink and how to live.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Honu

How dare he say he has the right tooo!!!!!!!!! .

He is far from the first President to create a health council, or worry about the health of our citizens!

And Honu - it is not an "order", it is not "law" any more than the food pyramid is. Good lord.

Behavior modification is a pretty strong word and it could and might entail anything . I hope the first house they come to is yours and his order tells you what to eat and drink and how to live.

Paranoid whacky talk. Geeshus, Honu, get a grip on reality. The President - any President - couldn't do that if he wanted to. Geeshus cripes.

[Honu]

Originally Posted by Riot

He is far from the first President to create a health council, or worry about the health of our citizens!

Ah but he is the first to use the words BEHAVIOR MODIFICATION!
Really know your history there has never been a president who has issued an excutive order concerning the way people live their lives.
There have been one's concerning war like George Washington , The Emmancipation Proclamation by good old Abe and Ike to desegregate schools.
There has never been a president issue an order that is so intrusive and a clear violation of our rights under the constitution.

They could do this.....


Congressional Recourse
If Congress does not like what the executive branch is doing, it has two main options. First, it may rewrite or amend a previous law, or spell it out in greater detail how the Executive Branch must act. Of course, the President has the right to veto the bill if he disagrees with it, so, in practice, a 2/3 majority if often required to override an Executive Order.

Congress is less likely to challenge EOs that deal with foreign policy, national defense, or the implementation and negotiation of treaties, as these are powers granted largely to the President by the Constitution. As the Commander-in-Chief of the armed forces, the President is also considered the nation's "Chief Diplomat." In fact, given national security concerns, some defense or security related EOs (often called National Security Directives or Presidential Decision Directives) are not made public.

In addition to congressional recourse, Executive Orders can be challenged in court, usually on the grounds that the Order deviates from "congressional intent" or exceeds the President's constitutional powers. In one such notable instance, President Harry Truman, was rebuked by the Supreme Court for overstepping the bounds of presidential authority. After World War II, Truman seized control of steel mills across the nation in an effort to settle labor disputes. In response to a challenge of this action, the Supreme Court ruled that the seizure was unconstitutional and exceeded presidential powers because neither the Constitution or any statute authorized the President to seize private businesses to settle labor disputes. For the most part, however, the Court has been fairly tolerant of wide range of executive actions
is is going to happen.

[Honu]

Riot read a lil about what an Executive Order is and what it takes to repeal one and tell me that it isnt a law.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Honu

Riot read a lil about what an Executive Order is and what it takes to repeal one and tell me that it isnt a law.

Honu - you have previously posted that you think the President can make law all by himself. No. He cannot.

[Honu]

Originally Posted by Riot

Honu - you have previously posted that you think the President can make law all by himself. No. He cannot.

The last paragraph says he can.


Definition of an executive Order:
Executive Orders (EOs) are legally binding orders given by the President, acting as the head of the Executive Branch, to Federal Administrative Agencies. Executive Orders are generally used to direct federal agencies and officials in their execution of congressionally established laws or policies. However, in many instances they have been used to guide agencies in directions contrary to congressional intent.

Not all EOs are created equal. Proclamations, for example, are a special type of Executive Order that are generally ceremonial or symbolic, such as when the President declares National Take Your Child To Work Day. Another subset of Executive Orders are those concerned with national security or defense issues. These have generally been known as National Security Directives. Under the Clinton Administration, they have been termed "Presidential Decision Directives."

Executive Orders do not require Congressional approval to take effect but they have the same legal weight as laws passed by Congress. The President's source of authority to issue Executive Orders can be found in the Article II, Section 1 of the Constitution which grants to the President the "executive Power." Section 3 of Article II further directs the President to "take Care that the Laws be faithfully executed." To implement or execute the laws of the land, Presidents give direction and guidance to Executive Branch agencies and departments, often in the form of Executive Orders.

[Danzig]

'used to direct federal agencies and officials in their execution of congressionally established laws or policies'.

[joeydb]

Originally Posted by Honu

How dare he say he has the right tooo!!!!!!!!! If people want to live their lives like hogs and smoke and drink and eat KFC its their right . You dont even come close to getting what this means.....its now an order.
Why would you feel comfortable with anyone telling you jack squat about how to eat, drink and live ? Behavior modification is a pretty strong word and it could and might entail anything . I hope the first house they come to is yours and his order tells you what to eat and drink and how to live.

[dellinger63]

why doesn't he first try it out on Congress, famliy and friends.

[brianwspencer]

Seriously, only absolutely paranoid Obama haters could construe this:


(c) contains a list of national priorities on health promotion and disease prevention to address lifestyle behavior modification (including smoking cessation, proper nutrition, appropriate exercise, mental health, behavioral health, substance-use disorder, and domestic violence screenings) and the prevention measures for the five leading disease killers in the United States;

as some kind of tell that there is a forthcoming storm of soldiers knocking at your door to check if you're smoking or drinking and what you're eating.

Considering that "behavior modification" is what has people foaming at the mouth here, I see you have a good point -- they're actually going to make a LIST of things that would make Americans healthier like exercise and eating well and not beating your wife and not abusing drugs, and they're going to put it an annual report to Congress. Whoa -- a list in a yearly report. Board up your houses and get your guns ready, guys, this one is for real! This is the one where our rights start to get trampled, when people make lists of healthy things and present them to Congress. I knew it was going to happen!

Yikes -- a very, very threatening list that just stinks of a socialist takeover and random government checks and enforcement on my eating habits.

Get a grip, people. This is why nobody takes the threads that actually might have some merit seriously, because a reaction to something like this just shows that this is not about actual concerns...but about weird paranoia that's not at all based in reality about Obama and his plans for the country.

It would border on comedy if it weren't so sad.

[GBBob]

To bitch about this and then to bitch about our pathetic health care system is hypocrisy at it's finest.

Pun intended..you can't have your cake and eat it too

Originally Posted by GBBob

To bitch about this and then to bitch about our pathetic health care system is hypocrisy at it's finest.

Pun intended..you can't have your cake and eat it too

We can for now. It is still America.

[joeydb]

Originally Posted by GBBob

To bitch about this and then to bitch about our pathetic health care system is hypocrisy at it's finest.

Pun intended..you can't have your cake and eat it too

In Obama's America, you can have cake that someone else paid for...the sucker who paid for it gets less.

[dellinger63]

Originally Posted by GBBob

To bitch about this and then to bitch about our pathetic health care system is hypocrisy at it's finest.

Pun intended..you can't have your cake and eat it too

Since I want less government in everything my bitch about this administrative/waste-of-money nightmare is consistent with my thinking our health care system is one of the best in the world and what will be the new Obama health care system will be pathetic. Save the speeches of not smoking, eating healthy etc. It's common knowledge and would be a huge waste of time and taxpayer money.

Luckily I've never had a taste for cake or government cheese.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by dellinger63

. It's common knowledge and would be a huge waste of time and taxpayer money.

Then get angry at R-Richard Nixon, and all the Presidents since. Oh - and many before.

[Honu]

Originally Posted by brianwspencer

Seriously, only absolutely paranoid Obama haters could construe this:


(c) contains a list of national priorities on health promotion and disease prevention to address lifestyle behavior modification (including smoking cessation, proper nutrition, appropriate exercise, mental health, behavioral health, substance-use disorder, and domestic violence screenings) and the prevention measures for the five leading disease killers in the United States;

as some kind of tell that there is a forthcoming storm of soldiers knocking at your door to check if you're smoking or drinking and what you're eating.

Considering that "behavior modification" is what has people foaming at the mouth here, I see you have a good point -- they're actually going to make a LIST of things that would make Americans healthier like exercise and eating well and not beating your wife and not abusing drugs, and they're going to put it an annual report to Congress. Whoa -- a list in a yearly report. Board up your houses and get your guns ready, guys, this one is for real! This is the one where our rights start to get trampled, when people make lists of healthy things and present them to Congress. I knew it was going to happen!

Yikes -- a very, very threatening list that just stinks of a socialist takeover and random government checks and enforcement on my eating habits.

Get a grip, people. This is why nobody takes the threads that actually might have some merit seriously, because a reaction to something like this just shows that this is not about actual concerns...but about weird paranoia that's not at all based in reality about Obama and his plans for the country.

It would border on comedy if it weren't so sad.

Im glad it doesnt bother you even a little bit that way if you do something in your lifestyle that needs modifying you wont have a problem with uncle sam changing it for you . I dont hate Obama, I just really despise his policies , no time in history has a president ever used the words "Behavior Modification"
And if its all cool with you then maybe you should offer yourself up as the first person who would like to have their behaviors modified.

[brianwspencer]

Originally Posted by Honu

Im glad it doesnt bother you even a little bit that way if you do something in your lifestyle that needs modifying you wont have a problem with uncle sam changing it for you . I dont hate Obama, I just really despise his policies , no time in history has a president ever used the words "Behavior Modification"
And if its all cool with you then maybe you should offer yourself up as the first person who would like to have their behaviors modified.

I would certainly have a problem with that -- thank goodness that there is NOTHING at all in there that could possibly be construed in that way unless you're going in trying to find a problem with it.

The other thing I have a problem with is that you somehow managed to get forced government behavior modification from that term being used in conjunction with a list being presented to Congress.

Not even close. When Obama's folks knock on your door to check if you're exercising or smoking, then come back here and let me know, and I'll defend you 'til I'm blue in the face. Because it's not happening, it's not going to happen, and nothing at all in the words you posted above could even remotely, reasonably be construed as anything close to that.

[Honu]

Originally Posted by brianwspencer

I would certainly have a problem with that -- thank goodness that there is NOTHING at all in there that could possibly be construed in that way unless you're going in trying to find a problem with it.

The other thing I have a problem with is that you somehow managed to get forced government behavior modification from that term being used in conjunction with a list being presented to Congress.

Not even close. When Obama's folks knock on your door to check if you're exercising or smoking, then come back here and let me know, and I'll defend you 'til I'm blue in the face. Because it's not happening, it's not going to happen, and nothing at all in the words you posted above could even remotely, reasonably be construed as anything close to that.

They wont come knock on the door , it will be way smoother and I bet Cass Sunstein will have some advice on how to make it happen . I see it as this maybe down the road after all the "scientific recommendations" and agencies with commitees get their stuff together they could say something like," Because this that and the other is bad for you if you dont stop your behavior we wont let you into our government health care program". Its called a nudge and its fundemental in behaivor modification.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by brianwspencer

Seriously, only absolutely paranoid Obama haters could construe this:

It would border on comedy if it weren't so sad.