Derby Trail Forums

Go Back   Derby Trail Forums > Main Forum > The Paddock
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Today's Posts

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 06-14-2010, 09:39 PM
SCUDSBROTHER's Avatar
SCUDSBROTHER SCUDSBROTHER is offline
Flemington
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: L.A.
Posts: 11,326
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Danzig View Post
wait...so, you're saying they ran more slowly because they had competition?? had they had no one to chase down, they'd have run faster? hmm, thanks for clearing that up.
I'm saying if you put in that horse that Baffert won the SAH with, then Rachel, or Rail Trip will get eatin' up late (especially at 10f) by Zenyatta (or Blame.) When these two you're talking about get to lay off a moderate pace, then it's all about whether they feel competition when they engage for the lead. If they get in the 5 mil race, they will either have to go faster (in the middle) than they want to, or they will have company when they go for the lead at the top of the stretch. Neither want 10f, so they will get run by (like the 8-9f lover Gio Ponte did when she had 10f to get him.) She's run down anything put in front of her so far, but keep trying animals. We'll see. She's the best competitor I have ever seen. Whether she could beat other really good 10f horses of the past? I don't know. She'd sure try. I don't think anyone was gunna beat Curlin the day he won the B.C. Classic. See, this is what people do when they hate a horse. They start trying to run it against horses from the past.

Last edited by SCUDSBROTHER : 06-14-2010 at 09:56 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 06-14-2010, 09:40 PM
RockHardTen1985 RockHardTen1985 is offline
Flemington
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 11,208
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SCUDSBROTHER View Post
I'm saying if you put in that horse that Baffert won the SAH with, then Rachel, or Rail Trip will get eatin' up late (especially at 10f) by Zenyatta (or Blame.) When these two you're talking about get to lay off a moderate pace, then it's all about whether they feel competition when they engage for the lead.
Misremembered... He is better on dirt, check out his Clark... He was injured, working back now I think
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 06-14-2010, 10:16 PM
ManilaRose's Avatar
ManilaRose ManilaRose is offline
Bowie
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Kentucky
Posts: 208
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SCUDSBROTHER View Post
They start trying to run it against horses from the past.
It's difficult to know how "The Queen" would stack up against top horses from the past when the connections aren't even willing to find out how she stacks up to the best horses of the present more than once per year.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 06-14-2010, 10:29 PM
ateamstupid's Avatar
ateamstupid ateamstupid is offline
Super Mod.. and Super Fly
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Brooklyn, NY
Posts: 13,036
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ManilaRose View Post
It's difficult to know how "The Queen" would stack up against top horses from the past when the connections aren't even willing to find out how she stacks up to the best horses of the present more than once per year.
Pretty much.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 06-14-2010, 10:41 PM
SCUDSBROTHER's Avatar
SCUDSBROTHER SCUDSBROTHER is offline
Flemington
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: L.A.
Posts: 11,326
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ManilaRose View Post
It's difficult to know how "The Queen" would stack up against top horses from the past when the connections aren't even willing to find out how she stacks up to the best horses of the present more than once per year.
I think all the doubts people had about her going into the B.C. last year were legit. I didn't know if she could run to the level of her competition. She proved she will do that. Yesterday, she proved she will run down a horse streakin' to the wire in front of her (while carrying 9 lbs. less.) She runs to the level of her competition. She competes. That's why I don't think these higher numbers are that important. She will run what she has to run to be first. People obviously don't believe that. I think she'll prove it to them, but she's not gunna run faster than she has to. Folks, this is a great competitor. They do this. They look like they can easily be beaten, but it is not easy to beat them. She is teasing you.....Say what you will about the owner/trainer, but don't confuse it (their timidness) for a lack of gameness by the horse. She obviously thinks she can run anyone down, and she likes to do it in a way that infuriates her haters.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 06-14-2010, 11:00 PM
ManilaRose's Avatar
ManilaRose ManilaRose is offline
Bowie
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Kentucky
Posts: 208
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SCUDSBROTHER View Post
I think all the doubts people had about her going into the B.C. last year were legit. I didn't know if she could run to the level of her competition. She proved she will do that. Yesterday, she proved she will run down a horse streakin' to the wire in front of her (while carrying 9 lbs. less.) She runs to the level of her competition. She competes. That's why I don't think these higher numbers are that important. She will run what she has to run to be first. People obviously don't believe that. I think she'll prove it to them, but she's not gunna run faster than she has to. Folks, this is a great competitor. They do this. They look like they can easily be beaten, but it is not easy to beat them. She is teasing you.....Say what you will about the owner/ trainer, but don't confuse it for a lack of gameness by the horse. She obviously thinks she can run anyone down, and she likes to do it in a way that infuriates her haters.
I like the horse and everything you say MAY very well be true, but there is no way of knowing that by setting in Cali beating a bunch of sorry fillies. What infuriates me is that the connections aren't willing to truly find out how this filly stacks up against the top competition on a consistent basis. They are doing a disservice to the horse. They want to tell us how great she is rather than show us. When she fails to win HOY again this year they will whine and moan just like last year when in reality they have nobody to blame but themselves.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 06-15-2010, 01:26 AM
SCUDSBROTHER's Avatar
SCUDSBROTHER SCUDSBROTHER is offline
Flemington
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: L.A.
Posts: 11,326
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ManilaRose View Post
I like the horse and everything you say MAY very well be true, but there is no way of knowing that by setting in Cali beating a bunch of sorry fillies. What infuriates me is that the connections aren't willing to truly find out how this filly stacks up against the top competition on a consistent basis. They are doing a disservice to the horse. They want to tell us how great she is rather than show us. When she fails to win HOY again this year they will whine and moan just like last year when in reality they have nobody to blame but themselves.
Well, when you win a 5 mil dollar race, and people poo poo it, then you don't really deserve to have her come back there MUCH. She should be racing in the Big Cap, and the Gold Cup, though.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 06-15-2010, 08:04 AM
Antitrust32 Antitrust32 is offline
Jerome Park
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Ft Lauderdale
Posts: 9,413
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SCUDSBROTHER View Post
Well, when you win a 5 mil dollar race, and people poo poo it, then you don't really deserve to have her come back there MUCH. She should be racing in the Big Cap, and the Gold Cup, though.
exactly
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Riot View Post
Can I start just making stuff up out of thin air, too?
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 06-15-2010, 02:51 AM
westcoastinvader westcoastinvader is offline
Washington Park
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 843
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ManilaRose View Post
It's difficult to know how "The Queen" would stack up against top horses from the past when the connections aren't even willing to find out how she stacks up to the best horses of the present.


It may not have seemed like much from a couple thousand miles away, but yesterday Zenyatta beat the horse that was the favorite in the 2010 Santa Anita Handicap....St. Trinians.


And yesterday Zenyatta bested Zardana easily. The same Zardana who won over Rachel Alexandra on the dirt at the Fair Grounds in March of 2010.


Two races back Zenyatta won over the winner of the 2009 Kentucky Derby.


In the same race Zenyatta won over the winner of the 2009 Belmont Stakes.

And the winner of the 2009 Travers Stakes.

And the winner of the 2009 Jockey Club Gold Cup.


Seems to me like she's been in against some good present day company.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 06-15-2010, 03:07 AM
ateamstupid's Avatar
ateamstupid ateamstupid is offline
Super Mod.. and Super Fly
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Brooklyn, NY
Posts: 13,036
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by westcoastinvader View Post
It may not have seemed like much from a couple thousand miles away, but yesterday Zenyatta beat the horse that was the favorite in the 2010 Santa Anita Handicap....St. Trinians.
That seems to say a hell of a lot more about the Big Cap field than it does about St Trinians. Yes, Zenyatta beat some good horses in the Classic, we get it. She also got them all on her home field. The point is it's way past time for something more challenging than Sunday's race.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 06-15-2010, 05:58 AM
letswastemoney's Avatar
letswastemoney letswastemoney is offline
The Curragh
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Turlock, CA
Posts: 2,561
Default

Yes St. Trinians was the favorite in the SA Handicap. But she finished 6th!
__________________
Lady and The Track
Twitter
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 06-15-2010, 08:11 AM
Antitrust32 Antitrust32 is offline
Jerome Park
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Ft Lauderdale
Posts: 9,413
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by letswastemoney View Post
Yes St. Trinians was the favorite in the SA Handicap. But she finished 6th!
Never let a fact get in the way of a good arguement!

Really though, St. Trinians is most likely the 2nd best female horse on the west coast. Maybe blind luck or her.. Its not an insult to say you beat St Trinians while giving 9 pounds (though Zen should be racing against males) She looked like a winner in the stretch and Zen ran her down in a thrilling fasion. St. Trinians' leg is scary though.. i thought she was going to start flying like a helicopter with that propeller.

About westcoasts Zardana statement though... Zardana isnt the same on poly as she is on dirt.. and to bring up the march 2010 race is just dumb considering it was off a 7 month layoff. Rachel beat Zardana by the same amount or more than Zen did two races back, didnt she? What does that mean? Absolutely nothing. (just proving that the Zardana argument is stupid)
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Riot View Post
Can I start just making stuff up out of thin air, too?
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 06-15-2010, 08:17 AM
CSC's Avatar
CSC CSC is offline
Arlington Park
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 4,408
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Antitrust32 View Post
Never let a fact get in the way of a good arguement!

Really though, St. Trinians is most likely the 2nd best female horse on the west coast. Maybe blind luck or her.. Its not an insult to say you beat St Trinians while giving 9 pounds (though Zen should be racing against males) She looked like a winner in the stretch and Zen ran her down in a thrilling fasion. St. Trinians' leg is scary though.. i thought she was going to start flying like a helicopter with that propeller.

About westcoasts Zardana statement though... Zardana isnt the same on poly as she is on dirt.. and to bring up the march 2010 race is just dumb considering it was off a 7 month layoff. Rachel beat Zardana by the same amount or more than Zen did two races back, didnt she? What does that mean? Absolutely nothing. (just proving that the Zardana argument is stupid)
St. Trinians ran the best race of her career and she had already ran some good ones since arriving in NA, I don't know how she can run better coming out of the Vanity, 99/100 that was a winning race and she would be a gr.1 winner today if not...
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 06-15-2010, 07:04 AM
kgar311's Avatar
kgar311 kgar311 is offline
Sheepshead Bay
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Saratoga(originally) now fl
Posts: 1,097
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by westcoastinvader View Post
It may not have seemed like much from a couple thousand miles away, but yesterday Zenyatta beat the horse that was the favorite in the 2010 Santa Anita Handicap....St. Trinians.


And yesterday Zenyatta bested Zardana easily. The same Zardana who won over Rachel Alexandra on the dirt at the Fair Grounds in March of 2010.


Two races back Zenyatta won over the winner of the 2009 Kentucky Derby.


In the same race Zenyatta won over the winner of the 2009 Belmont Stakes.

And the winner of the 2009 Travers Stakes.

And the winner of the 2009 Jockey Club Gold Cup.


Seems to me like she's been in against some good present day company.
Riiiiight, and Zenyatta did all this by traveling across country and running on a surface she hadnt even sniffed before??? Oh thats right it was the other way around. She beat them all on a surface none of these horses had ever raced on in her own back yard.

And NO that is not the same Zardana that we saw in March. Proven by her prior race.

Why you people continue to compare apples to oranges is beyond me, this argument is complete nonsense.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 06-15-2010, 12:55 PM
DaTruth's Avatar
DaTruth DaTruth is offline
Churchill Downs
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 1,969
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by westcoastinvader View Post
It may not have seemed like much from a couple thousand miles away, but yesterday Zenyatta beat the horse that was the favorite in the 2010 Santa Anita Handicap.....
Using your reasoning, RA's Preakness win is more meaningful because she beat the Kentucky Derby favorite.
__________________
Still trying to outsmart me, aren't you, mule-skinner? You want me to think that you don't want me to go down there, but the subtle truth is you really don't want me to go down there!
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 06-15-2010, 12:57 PM
slotdirt's Avatar
slotdirt slotdirt is offline
Atlantic City Race Course
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 4,894
Default

DIdn't the Kentucky Derby favorite also finish like 11th in that race?
__________________
The world's foremost expert on virtually everything on the Redskins 2010 season: "Im going to go out on a limb here. I say they make the playoffs."
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 06-15-2010, 01:11 PM
DaTruth's Avatar
DaTruth DaTruth is offline
Churchill Downs
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 1,969
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by slotdirt View Post
DIdn't the Kentucky Derby favorite also finish like 11th in that race?
Something like that. But don't let that stand in the way of the significance of a horse having been favored in a major race. If St Trinians had been only the morning-line fav for the Big Cap, would the zaniacs still bring it up?
__________________
Still trying to outsmart me, aren't you, mule-skinner? You want me to think that you don't want me to go down there, but the subtle truth is you really don't want me to go down there!
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 06-15-2010, 01:16 PM
DaTruth's Avatar
DaTruth DaTruth is offline
Churchill Downs
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 1,969
Default

I wonder if Anabaa's Creation had ever been favored in any major stakes events?
__________________
Still trying to outsmart me, aren't you, mule-skinner? You want me to think that you don't want me to go down there, but the subtle truth is you really don't want me to go down there!
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 06-15-2010, 02:38 PM
Antitrust32 Antitrust32 is offline
Jerome Park
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Ft Lauderdale
Posts: 9,413
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaTruth View Post
Something like that. But don't let that stand in the way of the significance of a horse having been favored in a major race. If St Trinians had been only the morning-line fav for the Big Cap, would the zaniacs still bring it up?
of course. Zenyatta ran down the morning line favorite of the Big Cap, St Trinians.

Davidowitz article would have been better either not using that at all, or at least saying she ran 6th.

crinkle

trash can
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Riot View Post
Can I start just making stuff up out of thin air, too?
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 06-15-2010, 02:37 PM
Antitrust32 Antitrust32 is offline
Jerome Park
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Ft Lauderdale
Posts: 9,413
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by slotdirt View Post
DIdn't the Kentucky Derby favorite also finish like 11th in that race?
And the Big Cap favorite finished 6th! St Trinians is a nice mare and probably 2nd best in the West (tho Blind Luck is good)... But by calling her the "big cap favorite St Trinians" is just insulting to people who have a functional brain.

"6th place Big Cap finisher St Trinians" could be a real statement... and sure she really was the favorite, and she ran 6th, so WTF does being the favorite mean? The betting public did a terrible job betting that race? I really cant believe Davidowitz used that in his article... but I guess I believe anything now-a-days.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Riot View Post
Can I start just making stuff up out of thin air, too?
Reply With Quote
Reply



Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:38 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2025, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.