PROGRAMMING ALERT: 'Clemente' on PBS; 9pm

[Scav]

Originally Posted by Kasept

LOL.. I was handicapping Wednesday's BEL and Thursday's HOL, and watching Antiques Roadshow, and it came up as being on next. Given that the famed 'Stars' thread featured Clemente prominantly, I thought the faithful might be interested... It's starting NOW! May be upstate/regional only.

The guy with the bathtub that paid $2500 and it is now valued at $3500...I can't believe something like that was actually created on this earth, a retractable bathtub

[Dick Powell]

Thanks for the tip, Steve. I'll never forget waking up on New Year's Day and my father telling me that Roberto Clemente had died in a plane crash. He was the greatest ballplayer I ever saw. 3,000 hits, .317 career batting average and a hit in all fourteen World Series games he played. But you had to see him play the outfield or run the bases to appreciate him. The greatest arm in terms of strength and accuracy ever, flawless in the outfield while catching fly balls down by his knees and the fiercest competitor. It's amazing that there's so little video of him playing the outfield. I've checked youtube and there's not much. He stopped leading the league in assists because everyone wised up and stopped trying to take an extra base on him.

If anyone wants the David Maraniss book on him, let me know and I'll send it to you.
Dick

[herkhorse]

that was awesome.

[Round Pen]

Originally Posted by Dick Powell

Thanks for the tip, Steve. I'll never forget waking up on New Year's Day and my father telling me that Roberto Clemente had died in a plane crash. He was the greatest ballplayer I ever saw. 3,000 hits, .317 career batting average and a hit in all fourteen World Series games he played. But you had to see him play the outfield or run the bases to appreciate him. The greatest arm in terms of strength and accuracy ever, flawless in the outfield while catching fly balls down by his knees and the fiercest competitor. It's amazing that there's so little video of him playing the outfield. I've checked youtube and there's not much. He stopped leading the league in assists because everyone wised up and stopped trying to take an extra base on him.

If anyone wants the David Maraniss book on him, let me know and I'll send it to you.
Dick

Very Good Stuff DP We need to Take Up a collection And Get the Book for Chuck

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Round Pen

Very Good Stuff DP We need to Take Up a collection And Get the Book for Chuck

I've read the book. Great player, great man. Not as good a hitter as Cabrera. Sorry for disappointing you guys with reality.

[Cannon Shell]

Different defensive metrics serve different purposes. Our Fielding Runs Above Average is strongest in terms of comparing performances across eras or levels, but it can produce different results than the others, which seem unanimous in their condemnation of Cabrera's work in the field. Even if he can't play defense, Cabrera is an MVP candidate every year thanks to his bat. Using Bill James's similarity scores, which don't adjust for era, Cabrera's top statistical comp at every age has been Hank Aaron, and if the visual doesn't work very well, the numbers don't lie-he's in the early stages of a Hall of Fame career. Moving to the Tigers changes nothing for him, save the possibility that he'll spend some time at DH or even first base. Concerns about his weight are overblown; if he was ripped, they'd say other things about him.

From 2008 Baseball Prospectus

[Round Pen]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Different defensive metrics serve different purposes. Our Fielding Runs Above Average is strongest in terms of comparing performances across eras or levels, but it can produce different results than the others, which seem unanimous in their condemnation of Cabrera's work in the field. Even if he can't play defense, Cabrera is an MVP candidate every year thanks to his bat. Using Bill James's similarity scores, which don't adjust for era, Cabrera's top statistical comp at every age has been Hank Aaron, and if the visual doesn't work very well, the numbers don't lie-he's in the early stages of a Hall of Fame career. Moving to the Tigers changes nothing for him, save the possibility that he'll spend some time at DH or even first base. Concerns about his weight are overblown; if he was ripped, they'd say other things about him.

From 2008 Baseball Prospectus

I think the People Who wrote that need to Check with the Sportswriters Cabrera has never been Close to Winning the MVP oops He did Recieve 1 8th place vote in 2008 I think THe Closest he has ever been was in 2005 he finished 6th or 7th And He has Never recieved any 1st or 2nd Place votes.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Round Pen

I think the People Who wrote that need to Check with the Sportswriters Cabrera has never been Close to Winning the MVP oops He did Recieve 1 8th place vote in 2008 I think THe Closest he has ever been was in 2005 he finished 6th or 7th And He has Never recieved any 1st or 2nd Place votes.

Is this a defense of your position? Clemente did not even make the all star team his first 5 years in a league with far fewer players. His best MVP finish before the age of 31 was 4th. He won 1 MVP in 18 years. Clemente had two 100 rbi seasons in 18 years. He had two 90 rbi seasons. He had three 20 hr seasons. His life time average was a good .317 but only .007 points better than Cabrera, his onbase % is 20 points lower. While there is no doubt that he is far superior in the field, the MVP defense is weak.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by Cardus

Read on, here. He doesn't hold a candle to Miguel Cabrera as a hitter.

Thanks for the laugh.