3/7 (AQU): Gotham S. (Gr. III); Toboggan H. (Gr. III)

[Bobby Fischer]

Originally Posted by Coach Pants

But really it's not. The horse isn't good enough.

I have to tend to agree here.
Anything resembling a derby contender should have challenged for the win here with this group. I want revenge did seem to run a pretty good race on first viewing. I don't think that Revenge is going to like 10 furlongs but he looked pretty good at 8.5. Imperial Council ran a disappointing race. I don't really consider him a derby horse, but he was still supposed to win this race.

[ateamstupid]

Originally Posted by Bobby Fischer

I don't really consider him a derby horse, but he was still supposed to win this race.

What? He was supposed to win the best Gotham in years (a.) in his first route, (b.) with one sprint race since a long layoff and (c.) off a three-week turnaround and ship? It's not like he ran terribly. He lagged behind and came flying late to nail the place horse. I'm not sure how you can be disappointed with his race.

[lemoncrush]

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

What? He was supposed to win the best Gotham in years (a.) in his first route, (b.) with one sprint race since a long layoff and (c.) off a three-week turnaround and ship? It's not like he ran terribly. He lagged behind and came flying late to nail the place horse. I'm not sure how you can be disappointed with his race.

I agree..
He was up near the lead in his previous 3 races. Clearly, they wanted to take him back and see how he would do. Whether he's good enough to win the Wood is another question, but they changed tactics today to see if how he would run from way off the pace.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

What? He was supposed to win the best Gotham in years (a.) in his first route, (b.) with one sprint race since a long layoff and (c.) off a three-week turnaround and ship? It's not like he ran terribly. He lagged behind and came flying late to nail the place horse. I'm not sure how you can be disappointed with his race.

i don't see how either. his previous was a 6.5 f race-til today he'd never run past 7f. i think this race may well have set him up for the wood-we shall see.

[Bobby Fischer]

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

What? He was supposed to win the best Gotham in years (a.) in his first route, (b.) with one sprint race since a long layoff and (c.) off a three-week turnaround and ship? It's not like he ran terribly. He lagged behind and came flying late to nail the place horse. I'm not sure how you can be disappointed with his race.

I'm not disappointed, I thought he ran decent for what he is, but I do think if anyone viewed him as Derby contender, they should probably be disappointed.

He didn't have to beat a good race from I Want Revenge, but (IMO) he should have challenged for the win. IC isn't going to get any better at 9 or 10 furlongs. He also has a little bit of a conformation problem with his stride, and it's my opinion that he really needs to be head and shoulders above in these weaker preps to be projected highly for May.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Bobby Fischer

I'm not disappointed, I thought he ran decent for what he is, but I do think if anyone viewed him as Derby contender, they should probably be disappointed.

He didn't have to beat a good race from I Want Revenge, but (IMO) he should have challenged for the win. IC isn't going to get any better at 9 or 10 furlongs. He also has a little bit of a conformation problem with his stride, and it's my opinion that he really needs to be head and shoulders above in these weaker preps to be projected highly for May.

i don't think the gotham was a weaker prep-and i thought IC ran well for his first time routing. whether he's a derby contender i don't know; but i wouldn't take him off of a list at this point.

[justindew]

I haven't seen the chart but it looked to me like Imperial Council didn't gain any ground on the winner in the final 1/4.

Still, I think he earned the right to move on.

[Travis Stone]

Every year it's the same thing --- a horse impresses and the hype becomes contagious. Imperial Council is one example. Today's effort wasn't terrible. They went 48 2/5 to the half, not exactly flying, and it showed as the pacemakers had plenty left late. So, all said, Imperial Council does deserve another chance, but I hope the superstar hype ceases.

[ateamstupid]

Originally Posted by Travis Stone

Every year it's the same thing --- a horse impresses and the hype becomes contagious. Imperial Council is one example. Today's effort wasn't terrible. They went 48 2/5 to the half, not exactly flying, and it showed as the pacemakers had plenty left late. So, all said, Imperial Council does deserve another chance, but I hope the superstar hype ceases.

Superstar hype? I must have missed this. I saw a few people suggesting he could be a nice one, but I didn't see any superstar hype.

Originally Posted by Travis Stone

The big story of the Gotham is that I Want Revenge dusted these guys, and he lost to Pioneer of the Nile. If Pioneer of the Nile stays on course, and takes to dirt, how good is he? These synthetic preps are screwing up my brain.

Think of the intent. I Want Revenge has west coast connections, so he ran on synthetic by default. Pioneerof the Nile has east coast connections, and for some strange reason, they never tried him on dirt out here. I don't think IWR's performance today should change any opinions of POTN.

Originally Posted by cakes44

Who was the last Derby winner that lost by 6 lengths in March?

Not sure how that's relevant when a horse freaks like IWR did today.

Originally Posted by Bobby Fischer

I'm not disappointed, I thought he ran decent for what he is, but I do think if anyone viewed him as Derby contender, they should probably be disappointed.

He didn't have to beat a good race from I Want Revenge, but (IMO) he should have challenged for the win. IC isn't going to get any better at 9 or 10 furlongs. He also has a little bit of a conformation problem with his stride, and it's my opinion that he really needs to be head and shoulders above in these weaker preps to be projected highly for May.

Again, he had a lot going against him today and he certainly wasn't disgraced. I hope this is the prevailing sentiment going into the Wood, maybe I can get a good price on him.

[Travis Stone]

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

Think of the intent. I Want Revenge has west coast connections, so he ran on synthetic by default. Pioneerof the Nile has east coast connections, and for some strange reason, they never tried him on dirt out here. I don't think IWR's performance today should change any opinions of POTN.

The fact that POTN beat IWR doesn't change your opinion of POTN? To me, it legitimizes POTN a bit and makes the "Will he handle dirt?" question a bit more intriguing.