The Fierce Urgency of Pork

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

You said Bush never suggested legislation nearing $1 trillion. Did he not suggest this? And that bill didn't look like it would pass at first either, so to act like it freaking shot through Congress is ridiculous. The galling lack of oversight and the negligible effects so far make it perplexing why you or anyone would be talking about it so favorably.

Not to mention that $2 trillion war that's accomplished nothing, but I'm done banging my head against that wall.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123404707960860295.html

Read this and maybe you'll actually understand that $700 billion dollar piece of legislation. By the way $350 billion is now controlled by the incoming govt appointee who is a democrat.

If you bother to read it you will find that steps are being taken with that $700 billion to deal with the problem. By the way some of Greitnther's ideas seem to be good ones.

The problem is no one really knows how to inject money
into a severe economic situation that stimulates the economy
and is not wasted because...

Its frkkn impossible.

If a government spends this much money,
some of it WILL be wasted. Seems to me like the
two parties have very different definitions of what
waste is. Republicans are willing to waste huge money
on a war against terrorism(Iraq). Pork is money
that goes into a congressional district that is not
yours or something you do not believe in. For Republicans
money spent on the military, intelligence, etc... cannot
possibly be Pork by the very definition of where the money
goes.

So all the Republicans can basically say about the bill is
it is a giant waste of money because they apparently had
no clue on how to dole out money properly either. A lot
of money that was supposed to stimulate the economy
went directly to pay off debt or stabilize the appearance
on some bank balance sheets. Loans are still difficult to get,
people that do have money are not spending it...
Republicans have absolutely no clue what to do
either. Tax cuts did next to nothing given the enormity
of the current problem.
Obama got elected mainly because of Republican incompetence
in so many areas. So I say shut the hell up because you
got us into some of the worst messes this country has
seen for a long time.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by pgardn

The problem is no one really knows how to inject money
into a severe economic situation that stimulates the economy
and is not wasted because...

Its frkkn impossible.

If a government spends this much money,
some of it WILL be wasted. Seems to me like the
two parties have very different definitions of what
waste is. Republicans are willing to waste huge money
on a war against terrorism(Iraq). Pork is money
that goes into a congressional district that is not
yours or something you do not believe in. For Republicans
money spent on the military, intelligence, etc... cannot
possibly be Pork by the very definition of where the money
goes.

So all the Republicans can basically say about the bill is
it is a giant waste of money because they apparently had
no clue on how to dole out money properly either. A lot
of money that was supposed to stimulate the economy
went directly to pay off debt or stabilize the appearance
on some bank balance sheets. Loans are still difficult to get,
people that do have money are not spending it...
Republicans have absolutely no clue what to do
either. Tax cuts did next to nothing given the enormity
of the current problem.
Obama got elected mainly because of Republican incompetence
in so many areas. So I say shut the hell up because you
got us into some of the worst messes this country has
seen for a long time.

a good portion will be wasted. the government is a poorly run institution, full of fraud and waste.

Originally Posted by Danzig

a good portion will be wasted. the government is a poorly run institution, full of fraud and waste.

It will not be wasted if it goes to "your" congressional
district. If it pays for a proper science lab room in
in "your" school district it will not be wasted. If it hires
a good teacher it will not be wasted. I could go on...

But it "you" do not see the benifits IMMEDIATELY and
DIRECTLY, it is a waste.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by pgardn

It will not be wasted if it goes to "your" congressional
district. If it pays for a proper science lab room in
in "your" school district it will not be wasted. If it hires
a good teacher it will not be wasted. I could go on...

But it "you" do not see the benifits IMMEDIATELY and
DIRECTLY, it is a waste.

A proper science lab or a good teacher hire is a local or state issue not a national one.
Building new schools just to build new schools is a waste

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

A proper science lab or a good teacher hire is a local or state issue not a national one.
Building new schools just to build new schools is a waste

Sorry to dissappoint.
It has now become a National issue,
not a local one. Look at state and local governments
balance sheets.

Where have you seen a new school built that is a waste?
All I can speak to is this city, and I have yet to see a new
school built where no kids or teachers show up. And I see
schools occupied that are absolutley falling apart and are
dangerous.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by pgardn

Sorry to dissappoint.
It has now become a National issue,
not a local one. Look at state and local governments
balance sheets.

Where have you seen a new school built that is a waste?
All I can speak to is this city, and I have yet to see a new school built where no kids or teachers show up. And I see
schools occupied that are absolutley falling apart and are
dangerous.

Like everything else it has become a national issue yet it does not belong there. slippery slope....

You never saw a school built where it wasnt needed
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123396676711659061.html

[dellinger63]

Originally Posted by pgardn

Sorry to dissappoint.
It has now become a National issue,
not a local one. Look at state and local governments
balance sheets.

Where have you seen a new school built that is a waste?
All I can speak to is this city, and I have yet to see a new
school built where no kids or teachers show up. And I see
schools occupied that are absolutley falling apart and are
dangerous.

The Milwaukee Public School system, for example, would receive $88.6 million over two years for new construction projects under the House version of the stimulus -- even though the district currently has 15 vacant school buildings and declining enrollment. Between 1990 and 2008, inflation-adjusted MPS spending rose by 35%, per-pupil spending increased by 36% and state aid grew by 58%. Over the same period, enrollment fell by a percentage point and is projected to continue falling, leaving the system with enough excess capacity for some 22,000 students.


And Bingo was name O

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123396676711659061.html

Had to put the quote up for those to lazy to read the link.

[ArlJim78]

Originally Posted by pgardn

It will not be wasted if it goes to "your" congressional
district. If it pays for a proper science lab room in
in "your" school district it will not be wasted. If it hires
a good teacher it will not be wasted. I could go on...

But it "you" do not see the benifits IMMEDIATELY and
DIRECTLY, it is a waste.

lets say hypothetically that none of it was wasted, the point is we're broke, so in effect we're taking this money from future generations of taxpayers to use it now. those future generations are not going to see the benefits are our spending splurge. no, they're going to inherit a mess, and a lower standard of living. we're running this country into the ground by making endless excuses for why we have to borrow and spend.

Originally Posted by ArlJim78

lets say hypothetically that none of it was wasted, the point is we're broke, so in effect we're taking this money from future generations of taxpayers to use it now. those future generations are not going to see the benefits are our spending splurge. no, they're going to inherit a mess, and a lower standard of living. we're running this country into the ground by making endless excuses for why we have to borrow and spend.

You may be perfectly correct.
So what would you do?
Right now?
Just sit tight?

Give us a plan.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by pgardn

The problem is no one really knows how to inject money
into a severe economic situation that stimulates the economy
and is not wasted because...

Its frkkn impossible.

If a government spends this much money,
some of it WILL be wasted. Seems to me like the
two parties have very different definitions of what
waste is. Republicans are willing to waste huge money
on a war against terrorism(Iraq). Pork is money
that goes into a congressional district that is not
yours or something you do not believe in. For Republicans
money spent on the military, intelligence, etc... cannot
possibly be Pork by the very definition of where the money
goes.

So all the Republicans can basically say about the bill is
it is a giant waste of money because they apparently had
no clue on how to dole out money properly either. A lot
of money that was supposed to stimulate the economy
went directly to pay off debt or stabilize the appearance
on some bank balance sheets. Loans are still difficult to get,
people that do have money are not spending it...
Republicans have absolutely no clue what to do
either. Tax cuts did next to nothing given the enormity
of the current problem.
Obama got elected mainly because of Republican incompetence
in so many areas. So I say shut the hell up because you
got us into some of the worst messes this country has
seen for a long time.

Another response that does supports nothing of substance and ignores realities.

military spending creates jobs and helps stimulate the economy. Ask one of your fellow teaschers in the history dept about military spending, the economy and WWII.

[Danzig]

obviously it's not wasted if it creates jobs and helps the economy...i'm talking about fraud/waste in other areas. how much of medicare is wasted by fraudulent claims? remember the study that showed doctors were billing for patients that were dead, or had never existed? california hospitals were putting homeless folks in beds, claiming they ran tests, gave treatment, and billed the govt for it-and it was all made up. that is my idea of waste/fraud.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Danzig

obviously it's not wasted if it creates jobs and helps the economy...i'm talking about fraud/waste in other areas. how much of medicare is wasted by fraudulent claims? remember the study that showed doctors were billing for patients that were dead, or had never existed? california hospitals were putting homeless folks in beds, claiming they ran tests, gave treatment, and billed the govt for it-and it was all made up. that is my idea of waste/fraud.

If govt spending were the answer then Cuba and Russia would have model economies

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

If govt spending were the answer then Cuba and Russia would have model economies

true! i just think folks should look more to their local and state governments-the feds seem to get blamed for everything wrong, and that's not always the correct place to put the blame.

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

If govt spending were the answer then Cuba and Russia would have model economies

Then what is the answer?
Right now given the economic situation you would
scrap the current bill and do nothing... OK.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by pgardn

Then what is the answer?
Right now given the economic situation you would
scrap the current bill and do nothing... OK.

Of course not. But seriously this is almost entirely a political laden bill, not real help. We all realize that politics play a role in our life (usually to the detriment) but this simply is a bad bill that originally was much worse.

[ArlJim78]

Originally Posted by pgardn

Then what is the answer?
Right now given the economic situation you would
scrap the current bill and do nothing... OK.

hell yes! that is actually a much better solution.

contrary to what Obama says we are not facing catastrophe if we don't pass this bill.

this bill stimulates government spending, thats all. its also a payoff to the causes and groups that supported Obama, unions and such.

[Cannon Shell]

After reading a few op-ed pieces in the NY Times I can see why the liberals are so nuts. Wow.
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/07/op...erbert.html?em

"The party without a heart"
"...mistake him for a class act"
"...party without a brain"
The obligatory shot at Rush L
"govt spending is needed to replace demand for goods and services"
"alleviate enormous suffering..."
Then the arrogant ending.

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Another response that does supports nothing of substance and ignores realities.

military spending creates jobs and helps stimulate the economy. Ask one of your fellow teaschers in the history dept about military spending, the economy and WWII.

But money that goes to education and allows some of us
to teach a class of 15 instead of 35 that is waste. I got it.
Because paying for more teachers does not stimulate job
production. Got that.

And excuse me, but this country saved tons of money during
Bush I, and Clinton with the closing of military bases. In this
city alone 3 very large Air Force bases were closed and we
thought it was the end of the world. It was not. So lets be
careful about the military spending thing. The military folks
that are teachers know this. They experienced it.