The Fierce Urgency of Pork

[ateamstupid]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

And please enlighten me to where Bush ever suggested any legislation that approached the trillion dollar mark.

Um. Are we not counting the $857 billion bailout bill that had no oversight as to where the money went?

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

Um. Are we not counting the $857 billion bailout bill that had no oversight as to where the money went?

The bill which had almost unanimous bipartisan support? That went towards the bailing out banks which would be considered a crucial part of the economic system? The same stance that most other industrialized nations are taking to fight the economic issues? The money that is used to prop up the credit markets? yeah they are the same.

[ateamstupid]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

The bill which had almost unanimous bipartisan support? That went towards the bailing out banks which would be considered a crucial part of the economic system? The same stance that most other industrialized nations are taking to fight the economic issues? The money that is used to prop up the credit markets? yeah they are the same.

You said Bush never suggested legislation nearing $1 trillion. Did he not suggest this? And that bill didn't look like it would pass at first either, so to act like it freaking shot through Congress is ridiculous. The galling lack of oversight and the negligible effects so far make it perplexing why you or anyone would be talking about it so favorably.

Not to mention that $2 trillion war that's accomplished nothing, but I'm done banging my head against that wall.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

You said Bush never suggested legislation nearing $1 trillion. Did he not suggest this? And that bill didn't look like it would pass at first either, so to act like it freaking shot through Congress is ridiculous. The galling lack of oversight and the negligible effects so far make it perplexing why you or anyone would be talking about it so favorably.

Not to mention that $2 trillion war that's accomplished nothing, but I'm done banging my head against that wall.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123404707960860295.html

Read this and maybe you'll actually understand that $700 billion dollar piece of legislation. By the way $350 billion is now controlled by the incoming govt appointee who is a democrat.

If you bother to read it you will find that steps are being taken with that $700 billion to deal with the problem. By the way some of Greitnther's ideas seem to be good ones.

The problem is no one really knows how to inject money
into a severe economic situation that stimulates the economy
and is not wasted because...

Its frkkn impossible.

If a government spends this much money,
some of it WILL be wasted. Seems to me like the
two parties have very different definitions of what
waste is. Republicans are willing to waste huge money
on a war against terrorism(Iraq). Pork is money
that goes into a congressional district that is not
yours or something you do not believe in. For Republicans
money spent on the military, intelligence, etc... cannot
possibly be Pork by the very definition of where the money
goes.

So all the Republicans can basically say about the bill is
it is a giant waste of money because they apparently had
no clue on how to dole out money properly either. A lot
of money that was supposed to stimulate the economy
went directly to pay off debt or stabilize the appearance
on some bank balance sheets. Loans are still difficult to get,
people that do have money are not spending it...
Republicans have absolutely no clue what to do
either. Tax cuts did next to nothing given the enormity
of the current problem.
Obama got elected mainly because of Republican incompetence
in so many areas. So I say shut the hell up because you
got us into some of the worst messes this country has
seen for a long time.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by pgardn

The problem is no one really knows how to inject money
into a severe economic situation that stimulates the economy
and is not wasted because...

Its frkkn impossible.

If a government spends this much money,
some of it WILL be wasted. Seems to me like the
two parties have very different definitions of what
waste is. Republicans are willing to waste huge money
on a war against terrorism(Iraq). Pork is money
that goes into a congressional district that is not
yours or something you do not believe in. For Republicans
money spent on the military, intelligence, etc... cannot
possibly be Pork by the very definition of where the money
goes.

So all the Republicans can basically say about the bill is
it is a giant waste of money because they apparently had
no clue on how to dole out money properly either. A lot
of money that was supposed to stimulate the economy
went directly to pay off debt or stabilize the appearance
on some bank balance sheets. Loans are still difficult to get,
people that do have money are not spending it...
Republicans have absolutely no clue what to do
either. Tax cuts did next to nothing given the enormity
of the current problem.
Obama got elected mainly because of Republican incompetence
in so many areas. So I say shut the hell up because you
got us into some of the worst messes this country has
seen for a long time.

a good portion will be wasted. the government is a poorly run institution, full of fraud and waste.

Originally Posted by Danzig

a good portion will be wasted. the government is a poorly run institution, full of fraud and waste.

It will not be wasted if it goes to "your" congressional
district. If it pays for a proper science lab room in
in "your" school district it will not be wasted. If it hires
a good teacher it will not be wasted. I could go on...

But it "you" do not see the benifits IMMEDIATELY and
DIRECTLY, it is a waste.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by pgardn

The problem is no one really knows how to inject money
into a severe economic situation that stimulates the economy
and is not wasted because...

Its frkkn impossible.

If a government spends this much money,
some of it WILL be wasted. Seems to me like the
two parties have very different definitions of what
waste is. Republicans are willing to waste huge money
on a war against terrorism(Iraq). Pork is money
that goes into a congressional district that is not
yours or something you do not believe in. For Republicans
money spent on the military, intelligence, etc... cannot
possibly be Pork by the very definition of where the money
goes.

So all the Republicans can basically say about the bill is
it is a giant waste of money because they apparently had
no clue on how to dole out money properly either. A lot
of money that was supposed to stimulate the economy
went directly to pay off debt or stabilize the appearance
on some bank balance sheets. Loans are still difficult to get,
people that do have money are not spending it...
Republicans have absolutely no clue what to do
either. Tax cuts did next to nothing given the enormity
of the current problem.
Obama got elected mainly because of Republican incompetence
in so many areas. So I say shut the hell up because you
got us into some of the worst messes this country has
seen for a long time.

Another response that does supports nothing of substance and ignores realities.

military spending creates jobs and helps stimulate the economy. Ask one of your fellow teaschers in the history dept about military spending, the economy and WWII.

[Danzig]

obviously it's not wasted if it creates jobs and helps the economy...i'm talking about fraud/waste in other areas. how much of medicare is wasted by fraudulent claims? remember the study that showed doctors were billing for patients that were dead, or had never existed? california hospitals were putting homeless folks in beds, claiming they ran tests, gave treatment, and billed the govt for it-and it was all made up. that is my idea of waste/fraud.

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Another response that does supports nothing of substance and ignores realities.

military spending creates jobs and helps stimulate the economy. Ask one of your fellow teaschers in the history dept about military spending, the economy and WWII.

But money that goes to education and allows some of us
to teach a class of 15 instead of 35 that is waste. I got it.
Because paying for more teachers does not stimulate job
production. Got that.

And excuse me, but this country saved tons of money during
Bush I, and Clinton with the closing of military bases. In this
city alone 3 very large Air Force bases were closed and we
thought it was the end of the world. It was not. So lets be
careful about the military spending thing. The military folks
that are teachers know this. They experienced it.