Curlin

[ELA]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Isnt everyone?

I guess so. We all know you'll never make everyone happy. In this business, I guess you can -- at best -- make very, very few happy.

Eric

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by ELA

Jackson is a commercial breeder, however, I think he is a commercial breeder in a different form and fashion. On one end of the extreme you have a Juddmonte, or a Darley/Godolphin/Marylou Whitney -- people who, I believe, for the most part do not sell yearlings. However, with Jackson, it is not black and white. Does he sell yearlings? Yes, I guess he does.

Regardless, by selling a ton of horses, one can certainly cannot draw a line and say he's a nonprofit or doesn't have profit in mind by selling horses. However, to say that he "does it for the money" is a fallacious arguement.

Eric

He got into the game as a commercial breeder and a very large one at that. He sells lots of yearlings, lots more than he runs. Which is fine but he isnt in this game because he loves the sport or anything flowery. He is in it as a business again which is fine and certainly his right but he is hardly involved in the game to be a "sportsman".

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by ELA

Jackson is a commercial breeder, however, I think he is a commercial breeder in a different form and fashion. On one end of the extreme you have a Juddmonte, or a Darley/Godolphin/Marylou Whitney -- people who, I believe, for the most part do not sell yearlings. However, with Jackson, it is not black and white. Does he sell yearlings? Yes, I guess he does.

Regardless, by selling a ton of horses, one can certainly cannot draw a line and say he's a nonprofit or doesn't have profit in mind by selling horses. However, to say that he "does it for the money" is a fallacious arguement.

Eric

Darley sells lots of yearlings in many different forms and fashions

[ELA]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

He got into the game as a commercial breeder and a very large one at that. He sells lots of yearlings, lots more than he runs. Which is fine but he isnt in this game because he loves the sport or anything flowery. He is in it as a business again which is fine and certainly his right but he is hardly involved in the game to be a "sportsman".

Debating a person's motives, passion, or whatever else goes along with it is an exercise in futility. Besides being a commercial breeder, he has bought plenty of horses as well. He races horses. I don't think he picked this sport and said here's a great business that I can make money in so let's do it. Does he not enjoy the sport to some extent? Come on Chuck, this discussion is getting a bit nonsensical in that there is no right or wrong.

A person is entitled to enter a business and attempt to make a profit. Personally, I don't think that means anything as it relates to whether or not is a "sportsman." I love this sport. I love this business. But I treat it like a business. Does that make me less of a "sportsman" -- I don't think so. If I didn't have the financial make-up I have, because I love this sport and business so much, I would own a horse, maybe 2. Because I could afford that. However, I will continue to own more -- because I can afford it and because I love it. It's not either or for someone like me, and exponentially for Jackson vis a vis his financial make-up. I can't speak to his passion, motive, sportsman-like feelings, etc., but I would think neither can most people.

Eric

[ELA]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Darley sells lots of yearlings in many different forms and fashions

OK. Poor example. Regardless, is that fact based upon "doing it for the money" -- I know, bad question, no real or right answer.

Eric

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

He got into the game as a commercial breeder and a very large one at that. He sells lots of yearlings, lots more than he runs. Which is fine but he isnt in this game because he loves the sport or anything flowery. He is in it as a business again which is fine and certainly his right but he is hardly involved in the game to be a "sportsman".

Ole Jess is NOT looking to earn selling horses nor is Darley.. Chuck the folks who are looking to maintain job security and a living are the engine behind such actions. Do you realize just how much money Darley and friends have? They could buy every single living horse in the world tomorrow the whole fn species

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by ELA

Debating a person's motives, passion, or whatever else goes along with it is an exercise in futility. Besides being a commercial breeder, he has bought plenty of horses as well. He races horses. I don't think he picked this sport and said here's a great business that I can make money in so let's do it. Does he not enjoy the sport to some extent? Come on Chuck, this discussion is getting a bit nonsensical in that there is no right or wrong.

A person is entitled to enter a business and attempt to make a profit. Personally, I don't think that means anything as it relates to whether or not is a "sportsman." I love this sport. I love this business. But I treat it like a business. Does that make me less of a "sportsman" -- I don't think so. If I didn't have the financial make-up I have, because I love this sport and business so much, I would own a horse, maybe 2. Because I could afford that. However, I will continue to own more -- because I can afford it and because I love it. It's not either or for someone like me, and exponentially for Jackson vis a vis his financial make-up. I can't speak to his passion, motive, sportsman-like feelings, etc., but I would think neither can most people.

Eric

He came into the game as a commercial breeder on a large scale. How that can be construed in any way other than doing this a business is beyond me. There is not much sporting about breeding horses for resale. Treating something like a business and actually designing a business are two different things. I may not be a billionaire but most of the ones I do know seem to think making money is the most important and fun thing to do. I dont see how Stonestreet is not an attempt to make money.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by freddymo

Ole Jess is NOT looking to earn selling horses nor is Darley.. Chuck the folks who are looking to maintain job security and a living are the engine behind such actions. Do you realize just how much money Darley and friends have? They could buy every single living horse in the world tomorrow the whole fn species

Freddy, he set up a huge commercial breeding operation. He was not duped into doing so. The guy wants to succeed in amking money at a game so many people say is so hard because that is what drives billionaires who are too old to do anything else anymore. To make money doing something that so many others fail in. Darley is ego driven on a different level and a lot of it has to do with being the top breeding outfit in the world which is currently the title held by their chief rivals. They certainly do lots of things that other operations cant afford to do but they do sell a lot of horses simply because of the numbers game and the fact that they are willing to do so many foal share deals where the foals or mares are contracted to sell. Neither operation is run by anyone but the top guy, Jackson and Sheikh Mo, they call the shots, period.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

3) Old Jess is not the most popular fellow in Lexington and there wasn't anybody real excited do stand a horse with him as a major partner (they figured it will only be a matter of time before they get sued)

[ELA]

Chuck, billionaires "put capital at risk" for many reasons other than what people think they already know, and for reasons other than what others think they could understand. This is not a discussion that can be simplified to A+B=C. We can talk about it some time over a beer.

Eric

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by ELA

Chuck, billionaires "put capital at risk" for many reasons other than what people think they already know, and for reasons other than what others think they could understand. This is not a discussion that can be simplified to A+B=C. We can talk about it some time over a beer.

Eric

I believe that this situation is pretty much a clear cut situation and that is as much as I can say though I would still like the beer.

[Kasept]

Originally Posted by GBBob

I know I'm in the minority..hell..I'm probably the only one, but I think there is a chance that other factors besides the 20% issues kept Curlin running this year.

1) Certainly Jackson doesn't need the stud fee deal, which, unless a horse is hurt, is the motivating factor for retiring to stud. But what money can't buy is the overall earnings record and I think that was something his ego wanted.

2) His ego also wanted what ESPN and others gave him...the accolades from being the man who bucked the trend and put Curlin on the road. I wouldn't fall over if he kept him running next year for that very reason. Probably won't happen, but for a man who has or can afford every material thing possible,
being on the road with the best horse in the land ( image wise) is a very powerful motivator.

I've been critical of him all year because the Gallion/Cunningham situation appeared to be the major mitigating circumstance in Curlin's running in '08, but a factor that hasn't been brought out from what I'm hearing, is that Jess Jackson isn't well physically. He's wanted to see Curlin run as much as possible and achieve whatever he can while he can enjoy it.