Georgie Boy

[ArlJim78]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

I really hope you are kidding.

In his final start on dirt, which was March 24th of 2007, Big Booster was 4th beaten 5 lengths at odds of even money in a 50K claiming race.

In his first start on synthetic, which was May 24th of 2007, Big Booster (under 123 pounds) wins an alw race on synthetic by 3/4 of a length at 25/1 odds. The 2nd place finisher, it was Heatseeker (under 113 pounds)

In his 2nd start on synthetic, Big Booster is beaten less than one length in the Hollywood Gold Cup at 25/1 odds.

Either KYRIM stole your login - or you are out of your mind for saying that Big Booster appears to favor dirt over synthetic.

Since beating Heatseeker at 25/1 odds in an alw race in his synthetic debut - Big Booster has raced exclusively and competitively in Grade 1 or Grade 2 stakes.

When Big Booster was racing on dirt, he was either competitive in claiming races at Gulfstream - or getting blown out in allowance races on the AQU inner dirt.

I believe you incorrectly assume that Big Booster under Mitchells care would not run well in GR1's or GR2's on dirt against the rather dreadful older horses out there. the horse has moved up a bit under Mitchell, big deal. which horse hasn't? pointing out that the horse ran fifth in his last dirt start overlooks the fact that the horse previously won on dirt with speed figures that are inline with what he is now running on aw. the class rise that you are hangin your hat on is a thin one imo.

and really, how good is Big Booster running on aw? he won an allowance race solely because of a hot pace set by Sinister Minister, then in four stakes he managed to float up for third in two of them, and didn't threaten in the other two.

i don't understand why you and others immediately resort to insults when you confront someone with a differing opinion.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by ArlJim78

the horse previously won on dirt with speed figures that are inline with what he is now running on aw. the class rise that you are hangin your hat on is a thin one imo.

His career lifetime top Beyer on dirt is a 98!!! And it came in a 1.5 length win in a 35K claiming race. His first start on synthetic, he beats TWO Grade 1 winners at 25/1 odds. His 2nd start on synthetic, he is beaten less than a length in the Hollywood Gold Cup at 25/1 odds.

Only someone trolling thinks that is a "thin class rise."

Originally Posted by ArlJim78

and really, how good is Big Booster running on aw? he won an allowance race solely because of a hot pace set by Sinister Minister, then in four stakes he managed to float up for third in two of them, and didn't threaten in the other two.

That's pretty funny. 30/1 shot Tobe Suave (who ran for a tag) pressed Sinister Minister and stayed on to finish 4th of 9. And, even though the pace wasn't really hot - if it was, how exactly would that hinder Heatseeker? After all, Heatseeker just won a $1,000,000 Grade 1 race that was setup by a very fast pace.

Oh yeah, you're right, the supposedly fast pace benefitted only Big Booster and not Heatseeker.

Originally Posted by ArlJim78

i don't understand why you and others immediately resort to insults when you confront someone with a differing opinion.

You're right - I should have known better than to ask if KYRIM stole your login - because the truth is, You do this trolling all the time!

Make no mistake, it is trolling, but you save it for racing debates and not off-topic nonsense stuff like every other poster would. It's very odd.

[Scav]

A grade 1 out in California really isn't equal to Grade 1's other places, all the good horses are in the east and midwest when it comes to dirt/synethic.

I know the point that Jim is trying to make, but it just won't get made. People like cmoriles and other people that have been doing this for a long time are stuck in their ways and change bothers them, it would bother me to. But all synethic track change are two things 1) pace and 2) the same notion that has been around since the creation of horse racing, some horses like it, some hate it, just like when horses switch from Hawthorne to Arlington, Churchilll to Turfway, Belmont to Saratoga.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by Scav

A grade 1 out in California really isn't equal to Grade 1's other places, all the good horses are in the east and midwest when it comes to dirt/synethic.

I believe the only Grade 1 dirt route for older males run in the East so far was won by Spring At Last.

You do realize that Arl Jim said Big Booster "appears to be a better horse on dirt" ? He was a very moderate claimer on dirt!

[Scav]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

I believe the only Grade 1 dirt route for older males run in the East so far was won by Spring At Last.

You do realize that Arl Jim said Big Booster appears to be a better horse on dirt? He was a very moderate claimer on dirt!

Some trainers improve horses and we don't know what to expect now on dirt. he WAS a very moderate claimer, under a different conditioner.

2.5 months Doug, and there has been how many Grade 1 routes this year so far, ONE! And that race while stamped a GRADE 1, didn't have grade 1 talent.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by Scav

Some trainers improve horses and we don't know what to expect now on dirt. he WAS a very moderate claimer, under a different conditioner.

2.5 months Doug, and there has been how many Grade 1 routes this year so far, ONE! And that race while stamped a GRADE 1, didn't have grade 1 talent.

For the record, those different conditiones were Peter Walder and John Kimmel.

And Scavs, the horses in the East aren't that good either.

Look, a few people who've posted on boards with Arl Jim for longer than I have don't seem to think he's trolling - the consensus is they think he's just trying too hard to defend the surface of his home track....

Maybe I'm wrong to say he's "trolling" - but you really have to wonder how it can be said that "Big Booster appears to favor the dirt." That is just not a logical statement.

[Scav]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

For the record, those different conditiones were Peter Walder and John Kimmel.

And Scavs, the horses in the East aren't that good either.

Look, a few people who've posted on boards with Arl Jim for longer than I have don't seem to think he's trolling - the consensus is they think he's just trying too hard to defend the surface of his home track....

Maybe I'm wrong to say he's "trolling" - but you really have to wonder how it can be said that "Big Booster appears to favor the dirt." That is just not a logical statement.

Walder is very good. Kimmel, um no, not with his stock.

I don't disagree, but East coast horses would trounce the west. STUDENT COUNCIL?? AWESOME GEM?? ZAPPA?? come on now. Zappa couldn't win a Grade 3 in NY or anywhere else. So would Awesome Gem for that matter.

Me personally, I can care less about a surface, they could run on cotton and it wouldn't matter to me

You check up on people on the internet?

[cmorioles]

Posting career records means little. I'm talking about my personal figures and the level of accomplishment. The fact is, you don't see horses successful on synthetic moving over to dirt and registering similar performances very often. About the only thing similar between dirt and synthetic, apparently, is the mortality rate.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by cmorioles

Posting career records means little. I'm talking about my personal figures and the level of accomplishment.

Someone page KyRim,

We need her to come tell CJ his figures are flawed.

[SCUDSBROTHER]

Originally Posted by ArlJim78

i don't understand why you and others immediately resort to insults when you confront someone with a differing opinion.

Friends with the site owner...What do you expect? He can pretty much say anything to people......You're exactly right,though.....Says Yankee Bravo(who has never run a bad race) stinks,and then he wants people to overlook bad races by horses he likes(or bad races from horses trained by people he likes.) Unbelievable arrogance,actually,but that's the way it is.

[SCUDSBROTHER]

The synthetic to dirt move is an issue,but it's overstated.It's a concern,but not a reason to totally toss horses.Some horses are going to do well on both.A horse with a big stride (like Gayego's, for instance) might actually like the dirt better.Georgie Boy? I don't know,but I wouldn't just toss a horse with that much heart.

[ArlJim78]

Interesting tidbit about Big Booster, he broke his maiden at first asking at Belmont at 1 mile on dirt (off turf). running second? Kittens Joy.

[miraja2]

I certainly didn't think there would be a "Big Booster" debate on the board today. Unless I am forgetting something, I don't think the horse has ever cracked the exacta in any graded stakes race on any surface....let alone win one.
Doesn't he basically just stink regardless of the surface?

[ArlJim78]

Originally Posted by miraja2

I certainly didn't think there would be a "Big Booster" debate on the board today. Unless I am forgetting something, I don't think the horse has ever cracked the exacta in any graded stakes race on any surface....let alone win one.
Doesn't he basically just stink regardless of the surface?

yes, basically thats right. the topic veered off on to Big Booster because of a throwaway statement I made about him while trying to stimulate a different discussion.
He has not been anything exceptional on turf throughout his career, and he is not exceptional now in California on synthetic. He is better on turf and synthetic than dirt. not a big story really.

[RolloTomasi]

Just to add one more ingredient in case anyone wanted to keep the Big Booster debate alive...

He was gelded last year (as was Sun Boat) when claimed by Mike Mitchell and brought to CA.

Not sure if the public was notified in a timely manner when he paid $50, though.

[cmorioles]

Originally Posted by ArlJim78

yes, basically thats right. the topic veered off on to Big Booster because of a throwaway statement I made about him while trying to stimulate a different discussion.

I wasn't trying to ignore what you asked. It is tough off the top of my head to list horses that fit your criteria. I think I know where you are going, and that is that horses seem fine moving from synthetic to dirt. I will agree it is more common for horses to move in that direction than vise versa.

There are plenty that don't take to dirt though. Just looking at Tuesday I found the following no name horses that seem to have a preference for synthetic. Synthetic races are in blue, dirt brown, grass green...most recent race to the left. They are overall performance ratings, each one a race, and do take into account maturation, pace, speed, etc...Beyer scale.

6  Just You and I Kid     15    40    37    39
4  Finale's Gold          44    13    21    64    54    21    48    50    57    58
6  Circular Reasoning     60    43    50    65    61    79    76    41    66    60
5  Payment in Kind        58    56    60    67    58    58    57    37    68    78
7  Jake's Da Man          29    52    62    55    63    54    59    49    67    59
8  Sterling Justice       35    39    47    33    31
7  Dancinginocidental     63    48    70    67    60    64    60    46    58    54

[2Hot4TV]

Originally Posted by SCUDSBROTHER

The synthetic to dirt move is an issue,but it's overstated.It's a concern,but not a reason to totally toss horses.Some horses are going to do well on both.A horse with a big stride (like Gayego's, for instance) might actually like the dirt better.Georgie Boy? I don't know,but I wouldn't just toss a horse with that much heart.

I agree and will be looking at a Synthetic to Dirt horse for the Derby. I can see know reason to increase your horses chances of injury before the big race you are pointing to. Racing and training on synthetics has benifits over dirt and if your horse takes to the dirt then you will cash a very nice ticket.

[miraja2]

Originally Posted by 2Hot4TV

I agree and will be looking at a Synthetic to Dirt horse for the Derby. I can see know reason to increase your horses chances of injury before the big race you are pointing to. Racing and training on synthetics has benifits over dirt and if your horse takes to the dirt then you will cash a very nice ticket.

I agree. I think every G1 should be contested only by firsters who have had all of their career workouts in a recovery pool.
Just think of all those fresh, healthy horses running against each other! It surely would be racing at its absolute best.

[2Hot4TV]

Originally Posted by miraja2

I agree. I think every G1 should be contested only by firsters who have had all of their career workouts in a recovery pool.
Just think of all those fresh, healthy horses running against each other! It surely would be racing at its absolute best.

It worked for Sunnys Halo

[2Hot4TV]

Kent Desormeaux will ride Grade 1 hero GEORGIE BOY (Tribal Rule) in the April 5 Santa Anita Derby (G1), trainer Kathy Walsh announced Thursday. Michael Baze, who was suspended three days (March 24, 27 and 28) for causing interference in Sunday's 8TH race at Santa Anita, guided the dark bay gelding to his recent San Felipe S. (G2) victory after regular rider Rafael Bejarano was injured. "It was a tough call, but it was a mutual decision," Walsh explained. "Michael is a fine rider and did a good job in the San Felipe, but (owner/breeder) Mr. (George) Schwary felt a more experienced rider was in order, even though Kent is tied up for the Big Dance (May 3 Kentucky Derby [G1])."...

Is this guy nuts????