9/30: JCGC; Vos; Beldame; JHTC

[GPK]

All the hating on EC.

Id love to own a horse that "isn't much" and has earned the $$ he has.

Hes not a Euro quality turf horse by anymeans...but his record here in America speaks for itself.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by GPK

All the hating on EC.

Id love to own a horse that "isn't much" and has earned the $$ he has.

Hes not a Euro quality turf horse by anymeans...but his record here in America speaks for itself.

It's not " hating "....it's reality. His last race was decidely mediocre and none of his efforts this year have been particularly good. For him to be odds-on, given his 2007 form, in a supposed big race like this is a complete condemnation of the race.

You're a fan of his, that's great, and obviously we all wished we owned him, but the truth speaks for itself.

[GPK]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

It's not " hating "....it's reality. His last race was decidely mediocre and none of his efforts this year have been particularly good. For him to be odds-on, given his 2007 form, in a supposed big race like this is a complete condemnation of the race.

You're a fan of his, that's great, and obviously we all wished we owned him, but the truth speaks for itself.

That last race is a complete tossout. How do you all of a sudden try to rate a horse 9-10 lengths off the lead, in a Grade 1 race, when his success from stalking just off the pacesitter speaks for itself. I still disagree with the posted fractions of that race as well. No way, IMO, they went that fast for the first 6 panels.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by GPK

That last race is a complete tossout. How do you all of a sudden try to rate a horse 9-10 lengths off the lead, in a Grade 1 race, when his success from stalking just off the pacesitter speaks for itself. I still disagree with the posted fractions of that race as well. No way, IMO, they went that fast for the first 6 panels.

Huh? He got a perfect trip and got swallowed up.

What are you saying....unless he gets the most perfect trips possible he's barely competitive?

[GPK]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

Huh? He got a perfect trip and got swallowed up.

What are you saying....unless he gets the most perfect trips possible he's barely competitive?

Taking a horse out of his preferred, and highly succesful, running style qualifies as a perfect trip?

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by GPK

Taking a horse out of his preferred, and highly succesful, running style qualifies as a perfect trip?

Stalking slow paces is hardly a better trip than being slightly farther back against impossibly fast paces. All the pace did in the Sword Dancer was give the deeper closers a fairer chance than they usually have against English Channel. It didn't hurt him....it just helped another. He still ran his usual mediocre race.

[GPK]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

Stalking slow paces is hardly a better trip than being slightly farther back against impossibly fast paces. All the pace did in the Sword Dancer was give the deeper closers a fairer chance than they usually have against English Channel. It didn't hurt him....it just helped another. He still ran his usual mediocre race.

again...I have a hard time believing the posted fractions in the Sword Dancer are correct.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by GPK

Id love to own a horse that "isn't much" and has earned the $$ he has.

My man, you just went with my all-time least favorite defense for a horse, the 'I'd love to own one like him' card.

I think I've had that one thrown at me everytime I've gone on one of my crusades against wildly overrated horses.

[brianwspencer]

He's just not what he used to be.

And what he used to be was good enough to score wins against competition that was more often than not less than stellar for the class level.

He's a fine racehorse and has certainly given good accounts of himself for most of his career, but I'm hard pressed off the top of my head to think of a time when he ran into a top-level racehorse without wilting.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

I think English Channel's last race will look much better on sheet-figures than it will look any other way.

He gave the winner six pounds at 12 furlongs - which I believe is like 2.9 lengths in weight on the sheets. And the winner, got a great ground saving ride from Calvin Borel, while EC was a little bit wide as I recall.

I'm positive EC came away with the better figure - even though he was beaten by 3 lengths...which is a large margin of victory in a turf race.

I don't think EC is as good as he once was either - but he was beat by a dream-trip winner as I remember, and weight shifts like that can mean a little something in turf marathons. Look at how 3yo's tend to dominate olders in the Arc.

Even if you excuse the loss in the Sword Dancer - his win in the UN came with a dream trip, and his Manhatten effort was blah.

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

I think English Channel's last race will look much better on sheet-figures than it will look any other way.

He gave the winner six pounds at 12 furlongs - which I believe is like 2.9 lengths in weight on the sheets. And the winner, got a great ground saving ride from Calvin Borel, while EC was a little bit wide as I recall.

I'm positive EC came away with the better figure - even though he was beaten by 3 lengths...which is a large margin of victory in a turf race.

I don't think EC is as good as he once was either - but he was beat by a dream-trip winner as I remember, and weight shifts like that can mean a little something in turf marathons. Look at how 3yo's tend to dominate olders in the Arc.

Even if you excuse the loss in the Sword Dancer - his win in the UN came with a dream trip, and his Manhatten effort was blah.

but do you really think he could lose here? I mean, this is the worst field i have ever seen for this for race.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

My man, you just went with my all-time least favorite defense for a horse, the 'I'd love to own one like him' card.

I think I've had that one thrown at me everytime I've gone on one of my crusades against wildly overrated horses.

always the go-to when anyone mentioned perfect drift in anything other than a favorable way.

[brianwspencer]

Originally Posted by Danzig

always the go-to when anyone mentioned perfect drift in anything other than a favorable way.

also known as getting gritsed.

[pdrift1]

Originally Posted by Danzig

always the go-to when anyone mentioned perfect drift in anything other than a favorable way.

you said a mouthful !!!!!! and you are spot on. what comes around goes around. if your going to dish it learn to suck it up

[Benny Leger]

Originally Posted by Danzig

always the go-to when anyone mentioned perfect drift in anything other than a favorable way.

Perfect Drift is a warrior. He runs his guts out every time the gate opens. One has to respect that trait.

[GPK]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

My man, you just went with my all-time least favorite defense for a horse, the 'I'd love to own one like him' card.

I think I've had that one thrown at me everytime I've gone on one of my crusades against wildly overrated horses.

Im reaching Drugs, I know...throw me a bone here, will ya?

[Scav]

Originally Posted by GPK

Im reaching Drugs, I know...throw me a bone here, will ya?

You have been REACHING since this horse was 2

[GPK]

Originally Posted by Scav

You have been REACHING since this horse was 2

Come back when you know sh*t about horse racing....

[King Glorious]

Another horse to pile onto the piece of crap pile. Goes by the name of Discreet Cat.

[Hoist Her Flag]

Are always overrated. He did nothing and even if he did, big deal! I think a horse should have to run a minimum of 5 or 6 races to even be considered horse of the year or divisional leader, they have minimums in baseball for the batting title and era title.