A new poll - for men only

[ArlJim78]

Originally Posted by cmorioles

At Delmar, having speed is a significant disadvantage. It is still a contest of some sort, but I wouldn't really call them races.

Despite my dislike of this polytrack, I'm all for the safety of horses. But there has to be a better way than this. A lot of people are comparing it to turf racing. There are some similarities, but in general, turf is almost always FASTER than dirt. This stuff is much, much slower and the races are almost painful to watch.

Who ever dreamed a G2 sprint for older horses in SoCal would have a 24+ second first quarter?

I'm curious, what is the big deal if the surface causes the time to be a bit slower? I see many people all up in arms about the final times and I don't get that. Its a very unimportant part of the game to me.

[cmorioles]

Originally Posted by ArlJim78

I'm curious, what is the big deal if the surface causes the time to be a bit slower? I see many people all up in arms about the final times and I don't get that. Its a very unimportant part of the game to me.

It isn't just the time, it is the fundamentals of the game. On a very slow dirt track, speed horses still have an advantage. Check the winterized surface at Mnr, or some of the slow days at Crc and a few others. It isn't just about the time.

What has really happened is that 6f races are now like 7f races, 7f races like 1 mile and 1/16 races, and 1 mile 1/4 races are like 1 mile 1/2 on dirt. I don't even care about the betting part. It is certainly possible to figure this stuff and make money.

Imagine though, if you will, a sport where horses like Seattle Slew and Dr. Fager wouldn't have been able to win a route race. Safely Kept and Xtra Heat would have won a few, but hardly been dominant. The list could go on and on. That is what you have at Keeneland and Delmar right now.

There is nothing I like more than seeing a horse go fast and dare the others to try and keep up. The best horses ever could run fast for a long time. Now, that is absolute death. Horses are basically being dragged back and begged not to run until the very end. Why are horses running fast in the first place? It is the survival instict, no? Watch horses in the wild. You won't see a lot of them fighting to be in the back when being chased by a lion.

Again, I'm all for saving a horses. There just has to be a better way than this.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by cmorioles

It isn't just the time, it is the fundamentals of the game. On a very slow dirt track, speed horses still have an advantage. Check the winterized surface at Mnr, or some of the slow days at Crc and a few others. It isn't just about the time.

What has really happened is that 6f races are now like 7f races, 7f races like 1 mile and 1/16 races, and 1 mile 1/4 races are like 1 mile 1/2 on dirt. I don't even care about the betting part. It is certainly possible to figure this stuff and make money.

Imagine though, if you will, a sport where horses like Seattle Slew and Dr. Fager wouldn't have been able to win a route race. Safely Kept and Xtra Heat would have won a few, but hardly been dominant. The list could go on and on. That is what you have at Keeneland and Delmar right now.

There is nothing I like more than seeing a horse go fast and dare the others to try and keep up. The best horses ever could run fast for a long time. Now, that is absolute death. Horses are basically being dragged back and begged not to run until the very end. Why are horses running fast in the first place? It is the survival instict, no? Watch horses in the wild. You won't see a lot of them fighting to be in the back when being chased by a lion.

Again, I'm all for saving a horses. There just has to be a better way than this.

A lot of what you say is very reasonable and true. However in todays "sport" horses like Dr. Fager and Seattle Slew would never run enough to become what they were back in the day. The truth is that polytrack may save the sport by confusing the breeders into making bad stallion choices which may inevitably turn the bloodstock markets downward making it less economically viable to retire horses early. Sound like a crazy theory but the pyrmaid scheme which exists now is going to sap all the talent and eventually interest out of the upper levels of the racing game until the time where it is not so damn profitable to not run and instead just create breeding stock.

[cmorioles]

I do realize there are some pluses to the fake surfaces, including potentially longer careers for top horses. It could also provide, eventually, some needed stamina being brought back into the breeding shed. At some point, we might actually even have a horse that could compete in a real top class turf race.

I just think there has to be a way to make it perform more like dirt. Imagine Slew trying to sew up the TC going 3 miles, errr, 1 1/2 miles, on a Belmont polytrack, yikes!

[miraja2]

Originally Posted by cmorioles

It isn't just the time, it is the fundamentals of the game. On a very slow dirt track, speed horses still have an advantage. Check the winterized surface at Mnr, or some of the slow days at Crc and a few others. It isn't just about the time.

What has really happened is that 6f races are now like 7f races, 7f races like 1 mile and 1/16 races, and 1 mile 1/4 races are like 1 mile 1/2 on dirt. I don't even care about the betting part. It is certainly possible to figure this stuff and make money.

Imagine though, if you will, a sport where horses like Seattle Slew and Dr. Fager wouldn't have been able to win a route race. Safely Kept and Xtra Heat would have won a few, but hardly been dominant. The list could go on and on. That is what you have at Keeneland and Delmar right now.

There is nothing I like more than seeing a horse go fast and dare the others to try and keep up. The best horses ever could run fast for a long time. Now, that is absolute death. Horses are basically being dragged back and begged not to run until the very end. Why are horses running fast in the first place? It is the survival instict, no? Watch horses in the wild. You won't see a lot of them fighting to be in the back when being chased by a lion.

Again, I'm all for saving a horses. There just has to be a better way than this.

The track is slow to be sure. Speed horses are at a big disadvantage to be sure.
BUT, if Seattle Slew in his prime had been in that race yesterday, I am pretty confident that he could have handled that bunch........no matter the surface.

[cmorioles]

Seeing how not a single horse has won on the lead at over a mile, I suspect you would be tearing up some tickets. We'll never know, but that is my opinion.

[miraja2]

Originally Posted by cmorioles

Seeing how not a single horse has won on the lead at over a mile, I suspect you would be tearing up some tickets. We'll never know, but that is my opinion.

Yes, and I agree that the surface is ridiculous, but none of those horses on the lead were even REMOTELY in the same ballpark as Seattle Slew. He could do things other horses simply couldn't do. I would say he was a tad better than yesterday's leader AP Xcellent.