Curlin

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by easy goer

The derby is a lot to ask, that's why its the derby. Rapidly developing horses have won on occasion.

Such as......???

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Such as......???

None in my lifetime.

Unless you count the reincarnation of the ex-claimer from Lukas....who had like 15 races.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

None in my lifetime.

Unless you count the reincarnation of the ex-claimer from Lukas....who had like 15 races.

I cant even remember a horse who ran in the Derby with only 3 races let alone won.

[SniperSB23]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

I cant even remember a horse who ran in the Derby with only 3 races let alone won.

Wouldn't that make them undefeated?

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by SniperSB23

Wouldn't that make them undefeated?

Who?

[SniperSB23]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Who?

Never mind. Meant horses with three starts going into the Derby.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by SniperSB23

Never mind. Meant horses with three starts going into the Derby.

Do you know any?

[miraja2]

I must be tired....this thread is confusing me....

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

I cant even remember a horse who ran in the Derby with only 3 races let alone won.

Did Valhol run in the Derby? Didn't he run very few times prior to it?

[hockey2315]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

I cant even remember a horse who ran in the Derby with only 3 races let alone won.

Showing Up last year. . .

I meant like horses that suddenly started getting better in their sophomore seasonn. Charismatic is the example I was thinking of. Real Quiet had not won as a sophomore. Dust Commander was a claimer at 2, then all of a sudden won Blue Grass and Ky Derby, he didnt win any other major stakes.
Going back aways Count Turf was nothing going into the derby and I think Dark Star was too.


What about War Emblem? He hadnt won any stakes races at 2, he wins an ALW, then IL derby, then Ky Derby. Isnt this the sort of thing w/ Curlin: maiden...Rebel stakes..???

SO read what I said. I didnt say "had only 3 races." I said "rapidly developing". Dont put words in my mouth

[ateamstupid]

Originally Posted by easy goer

I meant like horses that suddenly started getting better in their sophomore seasonn. Charismatic is the example I was thinking of. Real Quiet had not won as a sophomore. Dust Commander was a claimer at 2, then all of a sudden won Blue Grass and Ky Derby, he didnt win any other major stakes.
Going back aways Count Turf was nothing going into the derby and I think Dark Star was too.


What about War Emblem? He hadnt won any stakes races at 2, he wins an ALW, then IL derby, then Ky Derby. Isnt this the sort of thing w/ Curlin: maiden...Rebel stakes..???

SO read what I said. I didnt say "had only 3 races." I said "rapidly developing". Dont put words in my mouth

He's still only had three races, and I think that's the crux of the issue.

[POINTGIVEN1985]

win or lose today i dont think he has much of a shot in the derby, and im confused how he is getting bet down to the favorite in the derby future pool.... he has been green in both starts, he has been very impressive but in the derby facing 20 other horses i dont give him much of a shot, not with only 3 races going in

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Barbaro had just two races over dirt in his career coming into last years Derby.

And had only five races in him.

[SniperSB23]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

Barbaro had just two races over dirt in his career coming into last years Derby.

And had only five races in him.

That worked real well when they brought him back in two weeks after never racing on less than five weeks rest in his life. It was the same thing the year before. Closing Argument skipped his March prep and went in with huge spacing between his 3yo races. He ran huge in the Derby and then suffered a career ending injury in the Preakness. I think you can absolutely get away with babying your horse up to the Derby but then that horse is not going to be prepared if you try and bring him back in the Preakness.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

How many trainers intending to run in the Derby are worried about how much horse they'll have left for the Preakness?

I think you worry about the Derby--and if you're first or second in the Derby, you seem to almost have an obligation to run back in two weeks.

I agree though, in theory, a lightly raced horse with a lot of spacing between starts will figure to have a much more difficult time coming back in two weeks after a big effort in the Derby.....

That's pretty much the case/reasoning I used to bet Sweetnorthernsaint over Barbaro in last year's Preakness.

[SniperSB23]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

How many trainers intending to run in the Derby are worried about how much horse they'll have left for the Preakness?

I think you worry about the Derby--and if you're first or second in the Derby, you seem to almost have an obligation to run back in two weeks.

I agree though, in theory, a lightly raced horse with a lot of spacing between starts will figure to have a much more difficult time coming back in two weeks after a big effort in the Derby.....

That's pretty much the case/reasoning I used to bet Sweetnorthernsaint over Barbaro in last year's Preakness.

I think that is exactly the problem. Every trainer is preparing their horse for a huge effort in the Derby with no thought given to getting it prepared for the whole Triple Crown. Everyone seems to think the lack of preparation makes these horses tosses in the Derby which I disagree with. I think it is just going to make it a lot less likely we'll see a Triple Crown winner as long as we have so many horses peaking on Derby Day and then not prepared for the next two races.

[somerfrost]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

Barbaro had just two races over dirt in his career coming into last years Derby.

And had only five races in him.

I believe the last horse to win the Derby with less than 5 lifetime starts was Exterminator in 1918.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by somerfrost

I believe the last horse to win the Derby with less than 5 lifetime starts was Exterminator in 1918.

How many starts did Bernardini have going into the Preakness? I'm almost positive it was three starts.

Time is changing....

[SniperSB23]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

How many starts did Bernardini have going into the Preakness? I'm almost positive it was three starts.

Time is changing....

And none around two turns.