5/4 (CD): 145th Kentucky Derby Day

[Rudeboyelvis]

Originally Posted by Merlinsky

War of Will could've gone down in front of most of the Derby field. Someone could've died but sure, save the drama.

Here's one screen capture of what Maximum Security's coming out did to War of Will as he was moving forward. Credit: NBC's coverage, captured by @RussellKline1 https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D5xSBd8UcAAJQKH.jpg

A screenshot, out of context with no benefit of a head on proves nothing. Horses race in tight daily. If the horse (MS) shied toward the crowd that purportedly spooked him ( makes no sense) , and a speed horse (WoW) is fading outside, what exactly is the jock supposed to do?

These are the facts:
1. There was NO Stewards Inquiry
2. Neither of the 2 horses that claimed foul were ever fouled

It’s the most ridiculous takedown I’ve ever seen. If you want to give him days for the ride that’s one thing. Placing clearly the best, and unquestionably the winning horse 17th serves no one, and is another black eye for the sport.

[Dahoss]

Originally Posted by Rudeboyelvis

A screenshot, out of context with no benefit of a head on proves nothing. Horses race in tight daily. If the horse (MS) shied toward the crowd that purportedly spooked him ( makes no sense) , and a speed horse (WoW) is fading outside, what exactly is the jock supposed to do?

These are the facts:
1. There was NO Stewards Inquiry
2. Neither of the 2 horses that claimed foul were ever fouled

It’s the most ridiculous takedown I’ve ever seen. If you want to give him days for the ride that’s one thing. Placing clearly the best, and unquestionably the winning horse 17th serves no one, and is another black eye for the sport.

You know I respect your opinion as well, but I think you’re being overly dramatic. The most ridiculous takedown you’ve ever seen? Come on man.

MS came out at least 2 paths, maybe 3-4. War of Will was bothered and Long Range Toddy was totally eliminated. It caused a chain reaction.

It doesn’t matter where it was on the turn and while I don’t think Saez purposely did it....he did it. There was a foul and horses were cost placings. How is that not a DQ? Maximum Security being the best horse (and miraculously rebreaking ) should have nothing to do with whether or not his foul cost other horses a placing.

[casp0555]

My two cents on this will not matter or change one thing so Im out of the debate. This Derby and the call will continue to be debated forever or so it will seem....the fact is, and we as participants and lovers of this sport, should be divinely grateful that there was not a pileup of human and horse flesh coming out of that turn. An event like that would have not only been catastrophic for the athletes but for the sport itself.

Thank whoever you want but be grateful for the safe outcome of 143. Money can be replaced, egos restored, and new athletes will come along that will wow and entertain us. Nothing can bring back a fatality or permanent injury, horse or human.

Sorry to interrupt....

[philcski]

Originally Posted by Rudeboyelvis

A screenshot, out of context with no benefit of a head on proves nothing. Horses race in tight daily. If the horse (MS) shied toward the crowd that purportedly spooked him ( makes no sense) , and a speed horse (WoW) is fading outside, what exactly is the jock supposed to do?

These are the facts:
1. There was NO Stewards Inquiry
2. Neither of the 2 horses that claimed foul were ever fouled

It’s the most ridiculous takedown I’ve ever seen. If you want to give him days for the ride that’s one thing. Placing clearly the best, and unquestionably the winning horse 17th serves no one, and is another black eye for the sport.

The always great Scott Carson posted the most definitive video. If this isn't a foul... I don't know what is.

https://twitter.com/CarsoniPH/status...28240144457730

Originally Posted by casp0555

My two cents on this will not matter or change one thing so Im out of the debate. This Derby and the call will continue to be debated forever or so it will seem....the fact is, and we as participants and lovers of this sport, should be divinely grateful that there was not a pileup of human and horse flesh coming out of that turn. An event like that would have not only been catastrophic for the athletes but for the sport itself.

Thank whoever you want but be grateful for the safe outcome of 143. Money can be replaced, egos restored, and new athletes will come along that will wow and entertain us. Nothing can bring back a fatality or permanent injury, horse or human.

Sorry to interrupt....

Well said.

[Rudeboyelvis]

Originally Posted by philcski

The always great Scott Carson posted the most definitive video. If this isn't a foul... I don't know what is.

https://twitter.com/CarsoniPH/status...28240144457730



Well said.

Neither War of Will nor Long Range Toddy was winning this race, with or without interference.

The most impeded horse, War of Will never filed an objection. The Same Stewards being lauded on this board for their takedown are the same Stewards that completely missed it real time and never even filed an inquiry to look at it. The 2 horses that filed the objection were never fouled.

I get it. It certainly appears that Saez was momentarily not in control of his mount. You wanna give him days for this? I'm in complete agreement. But to put up an also-ran as a Kentucky Derby Champion - purely punitively- instead of keeping clearly best horse and eventual winner up is mind-numbing inexplicable

[Dahoss]

Originally Posted by Rudeboyelvis

Neither War of Will nor Long Range Toddy was winning this race, with or without interference.

The most impeded horse, War of Will never filed an objection. The Same Stewards being lauded on this board for their takedown are the same Stewards that completely missed it real time and never even filed an inquiry to look at it. The 2 horses that filed the objection were never fouled.

I get it. It certainly appears that Saez was momentarily not in control of his mount. You wanna give him days for this? I'm in complete agreement. But to put up an also-ran as a Kentucky Derby Champion - purely punitively- instead of keeping clearly best horse and eventual winner up is mind-numbing inexplicable

You don’t think it’s possible either one would have been 4th without the interference?

[Rudeboyelvis]

Originally Posted by Dahoss

You don’t think it’s possible either one would have been 4th without the interference?

Day 1 of Steward Training 101 they teach you that if you take down the best horse in the race, you do so only because it clearly affected another's opportunity to win, Regardless of who finishes 4th, 5th, or 17th. There is absolutely no way on earth that distinction can be made at the point of call in the race the infraction occurred.

Without interference, would Country House have won, finished 2nd, 3rd, or 4th?

that's a Huge No for me.

But because these Stewards ( who, again, were asleep at the switch) decided to punish the horse, its owners, trainer, etc. rather than the jockey who failed to maintain a hold of his mount, we have an also-ran masquerading as a champion.

How some here can reconcile that, I don't get. It makes a mockery of the sport.

[jms62]

Originally Posted by philcski

The always great Scott Carson posted the most definitive video. If this isn't a foul... I don't know what is.

https://twitter.com/CarsoniPH/status...28240144457730



Well said.

Scott's video clearly put me in the camp of it was a valid DQ Call and a Gutsy call by the Stewards.

[moses]

Originally Posted by philcski

The always great Scott Carson posted the most definitive video. If this isn't a foul... I don't know what is.

https://twitter.com/CarsoniPH/status...28240144457730



Well said.

That video shows it pretty clearly. It’s still unfortunate it happened...but oh well.

Bill Mott owes Jason Servis, though. Not only did the foul result in Country House getting placed first but that video shows the foul pushed a whole bunch of horses wide and created a clear lane for Tacitus who was just picking up a full head of steam.

[philcski]

Originally Posted by Dahoss

You know I respect your opinion as well, but I think you’re being overly dramatic. The most ridiculous takedown you’ve ever seen? Come on man.

MS came out at least 2 paths, maybe 3-4. War of Will was bothered and Long Range Toddy was totally eliminated. It caused a chain reaction.

It doesn’t matter where it was on the turn and while I don’t think Saez purposely did it....he did it. There was a foul and horses were cost placings. How is that not a DQ? Maximum Security being the best horse (and miraculously rebreaking ) should have nothing to do with whether or not his foul cost other horses a placing.

Nobody talking about this... it should be at least discussed.

22.1, 24.2, 25.4, 26.1, 25.1. That's not normal.

[cakes44]

Originally Posted by philcski

Nobody talking about this... it should be at least discussed.

22.1, 24.2, 25.4, 26.1, 25.1. That's not normal.

“Liked”

[moses]

Originally Posted by philcski

Nobody talking about this... it should be at least discussed.

22.1, 24.2, 25.4, 26.1, 25.1. That's not normal.

The last front-running / stalking Derby winner I can think of with a faster final quarter than the previous quarter is Big Brown but he was nowhere near a full second faster.

[philcski]

Originally Posted by moses

The last front-running / stalking Derby winner I can think of with a faster final quarter than the previous quarter is Big Brown but he was nowhere near a full second faster.

And he ran against a bunch of tomato cans.

(Redboard: I won a lot of money on that race)