1/28 (GP): $12MM Pegasus World Cup

[RHT2004]

Originally Posted by richard burch

Can't say it was an exciting first rendition. Chrome needed to show up for that to happen. Great horse and career though and make he do well in the shed.

Really? A once in a lifetime talent just cruised geared down. That wasn't exciting? This horse is 1 or 2 more of these races away from best ever IMO. He is different. No other horse is even close to him right now and I believe he is still improving. He is a lightly raced 4yr old. The best is yet to come.

[cakes44]

Originally Posted by RHT2004

This horse is 1 or 2 more of these races away from best ever IMO.

Who is your current best ever...Ghostzapper?

[Secretriat34]

well chrome didn't fire nad it seemed that the trainer had a lot of knowlwedge concerning the specifics of what he thought went wrong. makes you wonder if he was hurt before the race..just saying

[ScottJ]

Originally Posted by Secretriat34

well chrome didn't fire nad it seemed that the trainer had a lot of knowlwedge concerning the specifics of what he thought went wrong. makes you wonder if he was hurt before the race..just saying

Point number one : There is absolutely no way on God's green earth that Art Sherman or the ownership team would have risked the breedings rights on this horse by running him injured. Say what you will about the ownership, but Art Sherman deserves more credit and respect than that.

Point number two : Hung wide as expected, Chrome was travelling well along side Arrogate moving along the backside. He seemed to lose action heading into the turn which could have been related to the shift in the jockeys weight to handle the turn. This could explain an outer knee injury.

Point number three : Horses get injured during the running of a race. Dr. Bramlage's early assessment was that this was not going to be serious, but Espinoza clearly understood that the horse had injured himself and wrapped him up into the stretch.

[Indian Charlie]

Originally Posted by cakes44

Who is your current best ever...Ghostzapper?

Yeah, the hen is full of hyperbole, but Arrogate is pretty awesome.

[RHT2004]

Originally Posted by cakes44

Who is your current best ever...Ghostzapper?

When I say best ever I guess I get a tad excited. I should say best I have seen. My knowledge of the game goes back to like the late 90s. The best horses I have seen are Point Given, Bernardini and Ghostzapper. Ghostzapper being 1 by a lot. I have seen monster races from Quality Road and Frosted, but never anyone paring races up like Arrogate. Has a horse even Ghostzapper ever run 3 races like Arrogate just has?

[cakes44]

Originally Posted by RHT2004

When I say best ever I guess I get a tad excited. I should say best I have seen. My knowledge of the game goes back to like the late 90s. The best horses I have seen are Point Given, Bernardini and Ghostzapper. Ghostzapper being 1 by a lot. I have seen monster races from Quality Road and Frosted, but never anyone paring races up like Arrogate. Has a horse even Ghostzapper ever run 3 races like Arrogate just has?

I kind of figured that. Appreciate the clarification.

All of Ghostzapper's route races were monster races(his last 4). Plus among those he beat in those races were Saint Liam, Roses in May, and Pleasantly Perfect, all of which were better horses than anything Arrogate has faced, including Chrome, IMO.

[10 pnt move up]

Maybe want to check Timeform's site, looks like the race may have had some severe timing issues.

[10 pnt move up]

Originally Posted by cakes44

I kind of figured that. Appreciate the clarification.

All of Ghostzapper's route races were monster races(his last 4). Plus among those he beat in those races were Saint Liam, Roses in May, and Pleasantly Perfect, all of which were better horses than anything Arrogate has faced, including Chrome, IMO.

I just cannot agree that Roses in May or Pleasantly Perfect were better the than CC, Saint Liam probably not as well.

[cakes44]

Originally Posted by 10 pnt move up

I just cannot agree that Roses in May or Pleasantly Perfect were better the than CC, Saint Liam probably not as well.

Just my opinion of course. Does CC's Classic last year beat Roses in May in '04? I have my doubts. Pleasantly Perfect beat MDO twice on the square, which is good enough for me, though PP wasn't his best when Ghostzapper beat him. Saint Liam's Woodward vs Ghostzapper is better than anything CC has run, and he also won a BC Classic. If they weren't better, they are most certainly in the discussion.

To throw another horse in there from that timeframe...I'm not positive CC is better than Congaree either.

[10 pnt move up]

Originally Posted by cakes44

Just my opinion of course. Does CC's Classic last year beat Roses in May in '04. I have my doubts. Pleasantly Perfect beat MDO twice on the square, which is good enough for me, though PP wasn't his best when Ghostzapper beat him. Saint Liam's Woodward vs Ghostzapper is better than anything CC has run, and he also won a BC Classic. If they weren't better, they are most certainly in the discussion.

To throw another horse in there from that timeframe...I'm not positive CC is better than Congaree either.

I think you need to clarify distances, I guess for discussions sake I am thinking 10 furlongs.

My memory of Pleasantly Perfect was he was a very nice 10 furlong horse who grinded his way to wins but was not overly fast.

Congaree at 8-9 furlongs was certainly a top top class horse.

I never thought Roses in May was very good historically.

[King Glorious]

Originally Posted by cakes44

Just my opinion of course. Does CC's Classic last year beat Roses in May in '04? I have my doubts. Pleasantly Perfect beat MDO twice on the square, which is good enough for me, though PP wasn't his best when Ghostzapper beat him. Saint Liam's Woodward vs Ghostzapper is better than anything CC has run, and he also won a BC Classic. If they weren't better, they are most certainly in the discussion.

To throw another horse in there from that timeframe...I'm not positive CC is better than Congaree either.

If you're going to bring up Pleasantly Perfect as a horse that beat Medaglia d'Oro, I think we'd be remiss to not bring up Candy Ride. He destroyed MDO while setting a track record (sub 2:00) and earning the highest Beyer figure of 2003 (123). Prior to that race, he won a grade two on the grass while beating a multiple grade one winner in Special Ring. I think he merits a mention on this topic.

[Pants II]

Originally Posted by RHT2004

Really? A once in a lifetime talent just cruised geared down. That wasn't exciting? This horse is 1 or 2 more of these races away from best ever IMO. He is different. No other horse is even close to him right now and I believe he is still improving. He is a lightly raced 4yr old. The best is yet to come.

I agree with everything except for the 1 or 2 more races. That's just ridiculous but understandable considering your bromance with Bob.

[blackthroatedwind]

Best ever? That's funny.

Best horse since Ghostzapper is more like it. What he is really demonstrating is what happens when a great talent races against a lot of very mediocre supposed good horses.

Watching Arrogate against these horses is what it would have looked like if the 3YO Rachel Alexandra had raced against Songbird.

[10 pnt move up]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

Best ever? That's funny.

Best horse since Ghostzapper is more like it. What he is really demonstrating is what happens when a great talent races against a lot of very mediocre supposed good horses.

Watching Arrogate against these horses is what it would have looked like if the 3YO Rachel Alexandra had raced against Songbird and Beholder.

fixed that for ya

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by 10 pnt move up

fixed that for ya

That's also true.

Thanks!

[Alabama Stakes]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

Best ever? That's funny.

Best horse since Ghostzapper is more like it. What he is really demonstrating is what happens when a great talent races against a lot of very mediocre supposed good horses.

Watching Arrogate against these horses is what it would have looked like if the 3YO Rachel Alexandra had raced against Songbird.

Rachel would have ducked songbird and beholder the way she ducked Zenyatta

[Indian Charlie]

Originally Posted by Alabama Stakes

Rachel would have ducked songbird and beholder the way she ducked Zenyatta

Rachel would have also ducked shipping past the Rocky Mountains.

[Pants II]

Originally Posted by Indian Charlie

Rachel would have also ducked shipping past the Rocky Mountains.

Alternate Universe Rachel makes her debut at 5 in a 4 horse field on a Thursday.

[cakes44]

Originally Posted by Alabama Stakes

Rachel would have ducked songbird and beholder the way she ducked Zenyatta

Jesus f$&k.