American Pharoah with authority

[Rudeboyelvis]

Originally Posted by Indian Charlie

What about AP makes him so vulnerable to ridiculous criticism?


He's speed crazy and won't rate, he is too slow and will have traffic problems.

He's overrated. He has perfect trips. The race was handed to him. He doesn't beat anyone that's good, he won't face tough competition next time out, etc.

Why aren't people appreciating a spectacular horse?

This really might just be a truly once in a blue moon horse. Enjoy him. They are rare.

I love it. The AP/ALL/ALL $2 tri paid a gran. In a 7 horse race.

Whoever refuses to acknowledge the greatness of this horse is simply blinded by the potential windfall they haven't yet realized by betting against him.

[Dunbar]

I think I'd be more inclined to agree with the "greatness" thing if Tale of Verve hadn't finished 2nd.

--Dunbar

[Rudeboyelvis]

Originally Posted by Dunbar

I think I'd be more inclined to agree with the "greatness" thing if Tale of Verve hadn't finished 2nd.

--Dunbar

So by following your logic, you are willing to dismiss Dortmund as a complete fraud then I assume. Or blanket him the same litany of excuses that were afforded him after the derby.

It's amazing.

The horse was a suck up, beat nothing in the derby with a dream trip, had it his own way by going to the lead against the other two top 3 finishers in the derby...et. al.

Jesus Christ. What the fuc1< do you people want?!

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Rudeboyelvis

So by following your logic, you are willing to dismiss Dortmund as a complete fraud then I assume. Or blanket him the same litany of excuses that were afforded him after the derby.

It's amazing.

The horse was a suck up, beat nothing in the derby with a dream trip, had it his own way by going to the lead against the other two top 3 finishers in the derby...et. al.

Jesus Christ. What the fuc1< do you people want?!

How quickly it has become who did he beat. Just a couple weeks back we were hearing how good this crop is...some people are never satisfied....

[Dunbar]

Originally Posted by Rudeboyelvis

So by following your logic, you are willing to dismiss Dortmund as a complete fraud then I assume. Or blanket him the same litany of excuses that were afforded him after the derby.

No. By my logic, American Pharoah beat horses in the Preakness that for whatever reason, ran worse than Tale of Verve, who no one is going to put in a list of very good horses yet.

There were 2 other good horses in the Preakness. Did you see the horrific step that Firing Line took out of the gate?

Originally Posted by Rudeboyelvis

It's amazing.

The horse was a suck up, beat nothing in the derby with a dream trip, had it his own way by going to the lead against the other two top 3 finishers in the derby...et. al.

Jesus Christ. What the fuc1< do you people want?!

Sorry, I'm not ready to call him a "spectacular horse" yet.

If you want to say American Pharoah's probably as good as Big Brown or Smarty Jones were at this stage of their careers, then fine. But if you're maintaining he's somehow superior to those horses, or that his Derby and Preakness were superior to Funny Cide's, say, then you'll get an argument.

--Dunbar

[Arletta]

It was the slowest Preakness since 1956

[tector]

Originally Posted by Arletta

It was the slowest Preakness since 1956

Which under these circumstances is meaningless. Any speed fig is an utter guess.

[DonGuido]

Originally Posted by tector

Which under these circumstances is meaningless. Any speed fig is an utter guess.

Agree 150%. Who cares about the time. Are horses sent out to set records or win races under conditions? If I had a thoroughbred time would only matter in training as training goes. If I have a horse that knows how to win under most any conditions, the time her or she sets to win is irrelevant.

[jms62]

Originally Posted by DonGuido

Agree 150%. Who cares about the time. Are horses sent out to set records or win races under conditions? If I had a thoroughbred time would only matter in training as training goes. If I have a horse that knows how to win under most any conditions, the time her or she sets to win is irrelevant.

Pharohs opponents couldnt come within 7 lengths of the slowest time since 1955 let that sink in for a second when you say time doesnt matter.

[DonGuido]

Originally Posted by jms62

Pharohs opponents couldnt come within 7 lengths of the slowest time since 1955 let that sink in for a second when you say time doesnt matter.

Time doesn't matter, again, unless you want to put your time figs in the record book to be forgotten except by people like you. What matters is winning races, especially the big ones. And for that matter with your logic . . . then how poorly did the others run, although many likely just hated the rain, the slop and/or the track while one loved everything about and romped. That's why we call it horse racing.

[ElPrado]

Originally Posted by Arletta

It was the slowest Preakness since 1956

Good god! The horses needed water wings and you wanted them to set records? They needed life preservers!
Can you run in ankle deep water as fast as you can on dry pavement? If that was wet fast I'm scared to see what mud looks like there. They would be sinking to their withers.

[DonGuido]

Originally Posted by Dunbar

--Dunbar

I think I'd be more inclined to agree with the "greatness" thing if Tale of Verve hadn't finished 2nd. Maybe it was the rain, maybe TOV felt his oats today. Let's see what he does 3 weeks form now if he ever enters. His past races are no where near AP's and way out of Grade I stakes ranks.

Sometimes I can birdie a par 3 on Colonial in Fort Worth but it has only happened twice in my lifetime and I'm no spring chicken. TOV had the best day of his racing career and still finished 7 lengths behind AP as he mildly galloped across the wire. What's to crow about with TOV, or to question AP's prowess in light of this . . . please???!!!

[DaTruth]

The horse had everything his own way after Nakatani didn't send Mr Z hard after him, and for whatever reason his two main opponents never fired. It was not the type of performance that'll silence his critics.

[Runningincircles]

You guys are far more of the experts, but what I liked about AP's performance today was that he hustled out of the gate when asked, settled when asked (really just loping along), and then fired when asked. His ears were active, "listening" to the Espinosa in the stretch with a hand ride. He looked remarkably "happy" for a horse running in horrible conditions.

[DonGuido]

Originally Posted by Runningincircles

You guys are far more of the experts, but what I liked about AP's performance today was that he hustled out of the gate when asked, settled when asked (really just loping along), and then fired when asked. His ears were active, "listening" to the Espinosa in the stretch with a hand ride. He looked remarkably "happy" for a horse running in horrible conditions.

Agree 150% with everything you saw and said, he did everything that a champion race horse is supposed to do when his jockey asked him to. He ran an excellent race but I will say the rain and sloppy conditions didn't hurt his performance. I think he relished it.

So far I ask, who has he really beat? Is there a horse out there that's close to or worthy of giving him a real test. We may see in 3 weeks and/or on down the road but so much can change and happen . . .

Look, he has done little, if anything, wrong in his young racing career, and some already said here . . . let's enjoy him and I add get behind him in force and cheer him and connections on (who are also awesome horse people) and truly hope we are all not disappointed one more time.

[Runningincircles]

Yes, the next test is whether he can run just as "happily" for a mile and a half. And we can hope that Baffert and Espinosa have learned lessons from their past "almosts."

[Arletta]

Originally Posted by DonGuido

Agree 150% with everything you saw and said, he did everything that a champion race horse is supposed to do when his jockey asked him to. He ran an excellent race but I will say the rain and sloppy conditions didn't hurt his performance. I think he relished it.

So far I ask, who has he really beat? Is there a horse out there that's close to or worthy of giving him a real test. We may see in 3 weeks and/or on down the road but so much can change and happen . . .

Look, he has done little, if anything, wrong in his young racing career, and some already said here . . . let's enjoy him and I add get behind him in force and cheer him and connections on (who are also awesome horse people) and truly hope we are all not disappointed one more time.

I think I would be more apt to do this if he were trained/owned by anyone other than who he is. I can't stand them.

[DonGuido]

Originally Posted by DaTruth

The horse had everything his own way after Nakatani didn't send Mr Z hard after him, and for whatever reason his two main opponents never fired. It was not the type of performance that'll silence his critics.

Who cares about the critics, nothing will silence them . . . it's what they get paid for or satisfy there ego for. Mr. Z got what he deserved. He ran the best race of his life and it was for noting. BTW- I disagree, Mr. Z was sent (going) as hard as Mr. Z could go notta . . . don't believe otherwise. You can't believe Nakatani was holding him back can you?

[Travis Stone]

Originally Posted by DonGuido

Who cares about the critics, nothing will silence them . . . it's what they get paid for or satisfy there ego for. Mr. Z got what he deserved. He ran the best race of his life and it was for noting. BTW- I disagree, Mr. Z was sent (going) as hard as Mr. Z could go notta . . . don't believe otherwise. You can't believe Nakatani was holding him back can you?

Not quite. He earned $45,000 for finishing 5th and beat the Derby runner-up. If you ran this race 100 times, perhaps he does better. And what did he deserve exactly? To be vanned-off?

[fpsoxfan]

I watched the race with my son and his friend, who are both 20. They have really taken to the game. They are excited about possibly seeing a triple crown.
I explained to them that I was 9 years old when the last time we had a triple crown winner. This is just one reason why the American Pharoah story is great. We are getting younger people in the game, by drawing attention to what greatness in this game really is. I'm looking forward to June 6th!!!! Plus it's my wifes birthday.