Barbaro

RollerDoc · #1 05-09-2015, 02:59 PM

Next week marks the 9 year Anniversary since Barbaro's ill-fated Preakness. I know it is easy to be a Monday morning quarterback, but I just can't help believe that when he broke through the gate on the false start, the damage had already been done. Why was he "medically" allowed to run after that? Does anyone have a take on this?

And possibly while we are on the subject of Barbaro, where do you rank him in terms of most impressive Derby Winner since 2004. I have Barbaro, Smarty Jones, and Big Brown (don't be a HATER) as my top 3. I'm only going back to 2004 since that is when I first got interested in this sport.

tanner12oz · #2 05-09-2015, 03:13 PM

I highly doubt a thorough examination was done...gave him a quick once over and back in the gate. Pretty sure the threshold for late scratches on the big time tv races is waaaay higher then your typical maiden claimer. Jeez the only really big late scratch I can even remember in a big race is quality road in the cup a few years back. Lots of cash on the line, tv obligations, all have a part in the quick but probably not thorough exams. No clue if he was hurt or not but it was a bizarre sequence of events. I was at the track that day and it was an ominous feeling. Bernardini ended up being a great horse but it all all about the derby winner that day.

RollerDoc · #3 05-09-2015, 03:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tanner12oz

I highly doubt a thorough examination was done...gave him a quick once over and back in the gate. Pretty sure the threshold for late scratches on the big time tv races is waaaay higher then your typical maiden claimer. Jeez the only really big late scratch I can even remember in a big race is quality road in the cup a few years back. Lots of cash on the line, tv obligations, all have a part in the quick but probably not thorough exams. No clue if he was hurt or not but it was a bizarre sequence of events. I was at the track that day and it was an ominous feeling. Bernardini ended up being a great horse but it all all about the derby winner that day.

Wow, can't imagine what it would have been like to be there that day. I just had a bad feeling after the false start.

Not nearly as high profile as the Quality Road scratch you mentioned but in the 2008 Belmont, Casino Drive (believed to be the biggest competition to Big Brown) scratched the morning of the race.

tanner12oz · #4 05-09-2015, 04:54 PM

Morning of is 10000x different then in the gate

ElPrado · #5 05-09-2015, 05:40 PM

There was a story in Bloodhorse that showed, with pics, that Big Brown was running with a loose rear shoe in the Belmont. He was run into from behind just after the break. That probably had something to do with his Belmont performance.

Indian Charlie · #6 05-09-2015, 05:45 PM

I thought barbaro was the most talented horse in a long long time. If I could design a race horse, it would be very close to him.

my miss storm cat · #7 05-09-2015, 06:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RollerDoc

Why was he "medically" allowed to run after that? Does anyone have a take on this?

I just wanted to point out what happened with poor Horatio Nelson in the Epsom Derby back in 2006.

As the field was about to load Kieren Fallon was obviously and outwardly concerned about his horse. The track vet and AOB glanced at Horatio Nelson VERY briefly and gave the green light.

He broke down during the race.

Now I don't want to seem like a hand-wringing nutcase (or as if I'm implying that they couldn't have cared less... it's just that the look over was so incredibly brief) but yeah...sometimes things happen in racing that make you wonder if, when certain events like breaking through a gate or a jockey not being comfortable occur, if maybe there shouldn't be some kind of protocol in place for what aught to happen next.

A very sad part of the sport and I am not meaning to get preachy or anything here... just remembering. That's all.

ElPrado · #8 05-09-2015, 07:09 PM

Vets are not xray machines. They also don't have one sitting by the starting gate. You can't really blame the vets for what happened to Barbaro. He probably did not have any visible lameness. Horses get excited before racing. If he was injured, he wasn't showing anything.

ranger5830 · #9 05-09-2015, 08:05 PM

I have always felt that any time a horse breaks through the gate, it should be an automatic scratch. Not only does it protect the horse, it also protects the people who bet on it as horses that break through the gate almost universally run poorly. I know nobody likes to see their horse scratched but it would be the right thing to do. I remember watching that preakness on tv and I knew at the very least that Barbaro wouldn't run well or might DNF.

ElPrado · #10 05-09-2015, 08:10 PM

I pretty much agree with you. It's just right now that doesn't happen.

Danzig · #11 05-09-2015, 09:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ranger5830

I have always felt that any time a horse breaks through the gate, it should be an automatic scratch. Not only does it protect the horse, it also protects the people who bet on it as horses that break through the gate almost universally run poorly. I know nobody likes to see their horse scratched but it would be the right thing to do. I remember watching that preakness on tv and I knew at the very least that Barbaro wouldn't run well or might DNF.

I've seen horses break thru the gate and then win the race. barbaro is the exception, not the rule.
this is a depressing thread.

Indian Charlie · #12 05-09-2015, 09:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danzig

I've seen horses break thru the gate and then win the race. barbaro is the exception, not the rule.
this is a depressing thread.

It's pretty unusual to win after doing that. I'd say the horse you saw win was the exception.

Unless you mean the breakdown is the exception.

Danzig · #13 05-09-2015, 11:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Indian Charlie

It's pretty unusual to win after doing that. I'd say the horse you saw win was the exception.

Unless you mean the breakdown is the exception.

the breakdown is the exception.
I'd imagine most people would be hard pressed to name a horse other than barbaro who broke thru a gate, and then broke down. I don't think it was connected at all.
we have people griping about ramsey scratching horses and it affecting tickets, and now some think that if a horse runs thru a gate, it should be automatically scratched?
I will probably never forget cesario and her running off in the warm up. I wonder how many cancelled their bets on her? and then she won that race.

RollerDoc · #14 05-09-2015, 11:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Indian Charlie

I thought barbaro was the most talented horse in a long long time. If I could design a race horse, it would be very close to him.

While I marvel Big Brown's 2008 Derby , even I can admit that Barbaro is the best 3 year old I have seen since 2004 or at least the best Kentucky Derby performance I have seen. Indian Charlie, you are right, he would be a great one to design.

ranger5830 · #15 05-09-2015, 11:49 PM

I wonder if anyone has ever calculated the ROI of horses that break through the gate. I don't know it offhand but I am guessing it is very low, because I would be surprised if 2 out of 100 win. I think people would rather get all their money back rather than risk it all on a horse with a drastically reduced chance of winning plus you don't risk running a possibly injured horse.

RollerDoc · #16 05-09-2015, 11:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danzig

I've seen horses break thru the gate and then win the race. barbaro is the exception, not the rule.
this is a depressing thread.

I apologize and did not mean to make a depressing thread but rather remember Barbaro. I think we all feel terrible about his demise. The only thing that makes me feel good about him is to watch the 2006 Derby all over again. He dominated some pretty talented horses. I don't tink there were better horses as a group in that Derby since.

GenuineRisk · #17 05-10-2015, 07:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ranger5830

I wonder if anyone has ever calculated the ROI of horses that break through the gate. I don't know it offhand but I am guessing it is very low, because I would be surprised if 2 out of 100 win. I think people would rather get all their money back rather than risk it all on a horse with a drastically reduced chance of winning plus you don't risk running a possibly injured horse.

http://speedhorse-to-win.com/at-the-starting-gate/

Someone did a sample, and yes, it's low. Mind you, it's really an impossible correlation to make, as there is only one winner of a race so most horses that do not break through are also going to lose any given race. But it seems like it'd be a rule that few bettors would object to: break through a gate= automatic scratch.

Frost King · #18 05-10-2015, 08:17 AM

Just out of curiosity, what great horses did Barbaro beat in his Kentucky Derby? To me it looked like, the typical bad field of Derby starters.

jrajf · #19 05-10-2015, 09:13 AM

We were seated right in front of the starting gate. What I remember to this day was watching him pull up and Prado getting off and being amazed at how the crowd was pretty oblivious to the tragedy that had just occurred. I couldn't take my eyes off of it...

Danzig · #20 05-10-2015, 09:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GenuineRisk

http://speedhorse-to-win.com/at-the-starting-gate/

Someone did a sample, and yes, it's low. Mind you, it's really an impossible correlation to make, as there is only one winner of a race so most horses that do not break through are also going to lose any given race. But it seems like it'd be a rule that few bettors would object to: break through a gate= automatic scratch.

Hyper just ran third in the man o war after breaking thru the gate.