Frankel

[brockguy]

Originally Posted by Calzone Lord

It does.

If you study Harbinger's best race (140) VS Frankel's (147) you'll see true absurdity.

Harbinger was undefeated at age 4 and had four Group wins that season -- in his 140 in the King George he won by 11 lengths.

* Second place finisher Cape Blanco was a 5-time Group 1 winner and came here and dominated our turf divison.

* Third place finisher Youmzain (beaten 14+ lengths) made over $5.3 million in earnings and was twice 2nd in the Arc.

* 4th place finisher Daraykana (beaten 15 lengths) was a Group 1 winner and had just been beaten a neck in Group 1 last out.

* 5th place finisher Workforce (Beaten 17 lengths) won the Arc next time out and had won the English Derby earlier in the year.

He also ran 5.41 full seconds faster (or about 33 full lengths) than the winner of the very next race on the same day at the same distance.

This all happened under perfect weather conditions and ground just like Frankel's win.

Both races were tremendously fast -- clearly the two fastest turf races I've ever seen that were clean (had a companion race to compare against on the same card and distance) 147 VS 140 would not jive on an American style figure. It's nonsense fueled by reputation of the winner.

Doug,

You could pick so many holes in this logic, if I have time I'll propoerly respond - it was a fantastic performance by Harbinger but not absolutely unbelievable and - on the other hand Frankels was extraordinary and it was an absolutely privilege for me to be there at Ascot on Tuesday for it.

[Calzone Lord]

Originally Posted by brockguy

Doug,

You could pick so many holes in this logic,

No, you can't.

[brockguy]

Originally Posted by Calzone Lord

No, you can't.

Ha when I have the time I will - you seem to be suggesting that the horses who ran actually ran up to their or near their best form, I can easily argue that none of the other 4 horses did (which isn't that inconceivable!)

[Calzone Lord]

Originally Posted by brockguy

Ha when I have the time I will - you seem to be suggesting that the horses who ran actually ran up to their or near their best form, I can easily argue that none of the other 4 horses did (which isn't that inconceivable!)

We debated this a few days after the race. I'm sure a lot of people in Europe took your position on it at the time ... which is why you got 6-to-1 odds on Cape Blanco in his obliteration of the Irish Champions next out. It's why you got 6-to-1 on Workforce in the Arc next out.

The odds that all four of these extremely honest Group 1 winning horses simultaneously all picked the same day to run non-efforts is unlikely.

When coupled with the fact that the race went 33 lengths faster than the other race on the card -- that comparison tells the story.

Cape Blanco, Youmzain, Daryakana, and Workforce are all outstanding horses and they all ran very close to par on a day when the weather conditions were lovely

Harbinger was a dramatically improving 4-year-old who absolutely exploded. It was a truly great performance. Like I said though, there's a difference between performers and performances. Harbinger broke down in a workout after that and never raced again. He was not a great performer at age 3 like Frankel was either. I have no problem with anyone saying Frankel was the better horse. Overall, obviously he is. That's undisputed.