Question for trainers

[Linny]

trainers and/or owners, a question?
If you have a horse which is eligible for (say) NW1x and enter in a nw1x/opt cl FOR the tag, what is the reasoning?
I know that in NY, the "tags" are often somewhat inflated, esp for 3yo's and if you can lure a buyer to spend the $$$, you'll take it. I've seen several such cases over the last few weeks in NY or FLA. As a handicapper I'm accustomed to seeing the horses in for the tag as the "better" stock in many cases. They are the ones who are beyond the conditition.
I'm finding these races challenging as I'm having a tough time classifying these horses.

I don't want anyone to divulge "trade secrets" or speak in specifics. I'd appreciate a general discussion.

[Rudeboyelvis]

How many of these horses are coming back at this level fresh off or with in one start of a maiden win?

I'm no expert by a longshot, but I would take a guess that in this scenerio (3yo's in January) the horse broke it's maiden against fairly weak company, and rather than run in conditions where the trainer (and this is where it's imperative to have one with a great evaluative eye) is confident that the horse will be outclassed in NW1x company, they opt for AOC where they may get more intrinsic value fresh off the maiden win.

If for instance you have a horse that say, runs a 60 beyer avg over 3-4 starts, then breaks maiden with a high 60's effort, the horse has added value to himself by winning with a career top. Now as an owner you need to try and evaluate whether he's coming into a different level of form, or he just had a great day...Now say you paid 40k for the horse at a 2yo sale, and you can run him next out in a NW1x AOC with a 75K tag, he would probably one of the better runners in that field, although most likely would not get claimed first out at that level.

So you get the opportunity to run for Allowance type money, against little lower class of horse, a better shot to get your picture taken, and if the horse does get claimed, you probably made out - you'll get almost double what you paid.

The issue get more muddy and less appealing in state bred company, which is why you see more of these races written for (3yo's) in open company in the winter, especially in NY and FL.

Don't know if this makes sense, but that's my wild assed guess

[The Bid]

Generally an AOC is written to fill allowance races that wouldnt fill otherwise. You get some horses who have went through conditions that can enter if they are tagged, you get up and comers who are entered in the condition that dont have to be tagged because the are eligible for the allowanace part of the condtion.

If you are talking a NW1xaoc where a horse can be tagged, they are probably cheap and worth the most at that point. In that case you are hoping to get it claimed, or they are crippled, in which case you are hoping to get claimed )

[Cannon Shell]

Sometimes you can win the race with the tag without getting claimed and without losing the condition. The when the race comes back again you can run for the condition and hopefully win the same condition twice.

It can get complicated but it truly is a horse-by-horse case of which end you want to go in and what you want accomplished.

Once scenario is that you might not want to "blow" the non-winner of one allowance condition for the horse. For example if you were running at Turfway Park where the purses are small you might want to try to save the allowance condition for the horse when you run it at a track where the purses are good. The only problem there is that the competition is usually better.

Secondly your horse may have "run out" their allowance condition and in order to get in the race you have to go the optional-claim route and hope your horse is not claimed (if that is the case or vice-versa)

The best advice I ever got though was a few years back when I had the pleasure of having dinner with Ms Cherny and she told me "son, good luck in the business and remember that conditions win races".

Good Luck to you.

[Linny]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Sometimes you can win the race with the tag without getting claimed and without losing the condition. The when the race comes back again you can run for the condition and hopefully win the same condition twice.

This may be the answer I was looking for. I hadn't thought of it that way. In races for older horses I often like a horse in for the tag as he's won far more than the alc horses but with the 3yo's it's a bit trickier. I had forgotten that if you win with the tag you keep the condition.

I understand the Opt/Cl idea. It was a but odd though to see horses eligible for the condition running for the tag. After all they are facing the same rivals, tag or not. It makes sense though now, looking at it in terms of future races.

Thank you all!