Empire Maker v Vindication v Mineshaft

#1 08-09-2006, 02:31 PM

Lets have some fun here and pick out (of the three mentioned) the sire who produces the 1st graded horse.

I pick Vindication.

#2 08-09-2006, 02:36 PM

Empire Maker saw the best book by far, but most the mares he saw have classic type pedigrees and will be retained by the sheik so they wont be pushed as 2yo's.

Mineshaft's weanlings have looked immature and to me, he was too much of a late developer to really suggest he'd throw very good 2yo's. He strikes me as a Point Given type, but in a much higher class of stallion.

I would say the safe bet is Vindication.

Cajungator26 · #3 08-09-2006, 02:41 PM

I'm going to go with Mineshaft.

freezy · #4 08-09-2006, 02:43 PM

What about the horse I believe was better then mineshaft.

#5 08-09-2006, 02:44 PM

Oh, and for the record, Sky Mesa will have the first G1 winner.

miraja2 · #6 08-09-2006, 02:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eurobounce

Lets have some fun here and pick out (of the three mentioned) the sire who produces the 1st graded horse.

I pick Vindication.

Vindication. There is a good chance that Mineshaft's babies will be at their best going 8.5f and beyond later in their careers. Vindication's boys might be big time threats in races right off the bat just like their old man, and I think they will be more versatile.
As for Empire Maker.....he might be a good stallion but I didn't like him when he was racing so I can't pick him here.
Maybe Funny Cide will still be around in a couple years to face his sons!!!!

Cajungator26 · #7 08-09-2006, 02:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by freezy

What about the horse I believe was better then mineshaft.

Unsound horse right there...

#8 08-09-2006, 02:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by freezy

What about the horse I believe was better then mineshaft.

If you look at the other stallion thread you will see Harlan's Holiday brought up... which ties in with Candy Ride because his sire, Ride the Rails, is a member of the same family... that of Alanesian/Alablue.

But, in regards to Candy Ride is intriguing but if I was breeding, i'd take a "wait and see" approach with him. Too many stallions from SA show brilliance and talent and then, when bred to our mares, produce very little. Look at Gentlemen, gorgeous specimen with a ton of talent, but his foals cant out-run a fat girl.

freezy · #9 08-09-2006, 02:49 PM

Unsound yes, but very good and the horse only needs to win 1 grade 1 to be the first so why not, may not run more then 5 races but could be first.

freezy · #10 08-09-2006, 02:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Balletto

If you look at the other stallion thread you will see Harlan's Holiday brought up... which ties in with Candy Ride because his sire, Ride the Rails, is a member of the same family... that of Alanesian/Alablue.

But, in regards to Candy Ride is intriguing but if I was breeding, i'd take a "wait and see" approach with him. Too many stallions from SA show brilliance and talent and then, when bred to our mares, produce very little. Look at Gentlemen, gorgeous specimen with a ton of talent, but his foals cant out-run a fat girl.

very intriguing thoughts, just thought i would add candy ride to the mix as i thought that horse without the soudness issues was a monster fo the horse.

Betsy · #11 08-09-2006, 02:57 PM

It's hard to tell whether Mineshaft was truly a late developer or not since he started his career on grass. He may have been a TC contender had he raced solely in the US. We'll never know. I'm extremely confident that this guy will be a huge sire success - with his pedigree and ability? I'm not so sure that he won't be capable of siring good 2 year olds.....

I do think Sky Mesa will be a wonderful sire........and his yearlings show that people agree. I agree with John Ferguson - he also has every right to sire good grass horses. Pulpit is a very fine turf sire.

Danzig · #12 08-09-2006, 03:15 PM

tough call between the three. lane's end will do right by mineshaft, they know their business there. of course juddmonte has the mares to send to empire maker, so he's got a heck of a shot. and of course there's vindication with the precocity he showed.

gotta pick one tho...so i'm going with mineshaft.

dalakhani · #13 08-09-2006, 03:19 PM

Empire Maker

Far and away the best book of mares.

slotdirt · #14 08-09-2006, 03:25 PM

Point Given had a fantastic book of mares his first year at stud, and none of his runners really developed until their 3YO years. I'd reckon the same will be true for Empire Maker.

dalakhani · #15 08-09-2006, 04:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slotdirt

Point Given had a fantastic book of mares his first year at stud, and none of his runners really developed until their 3YO years. I'd reckon the same will be true for Empire Maker.

Youre probably right...but...Point Given isnt nearly as well bred as Empire Maker and his book, although nice, isnt anywhere close to what Empire Maker got his hooves on.

Again, you are probably right though about the babies developing later, although, the unbridleds can tend to be precocious at times regardless of size.

#16 08-10-2006, 01:39 PM

As much as I loved Vindication, I think his babies are going to have soundness issues. As fragile as he was, it's hard to imagine his babies NOT being unsound. I do think that he will have some early bloomers though.
Empire Maker got an AMAZING first book, he is being very strongly supported, if he doesn't have multiple graded stakes winners out of his first crop, I'll be shocked.
Mineshaft is another that I think will have a very nice crop. I wouldn't hold his 3 year old season against him, he obviously never took to the grass. Once he came back here he was golden. Farish sent Mineshaft to Europe as a "gift" to that country. He obviously thought he was going to be a dominant three year old. I would venture to guess that had he stayed over here, he would have been among the top of his class.

Candy Ride? Who in their right mind would breed to him? He couldn't even hold himself together long enough to actually have a campaign!