Mockery of Sport?

MISTERGEE · #1 05-03-2009, 08:56 AM

first of all I love horseracing, and I love a good underdog, however I am afraid MTB winning may have made a mockery of the sport and the derby for many.The horse with the slowest of any type of speed figure, with the worst perceived "class", getting his ass beat at Sunland, with a trainer who was 1 for 32 for the year. And not only winning but destroying 18 other of the best of the best available. so poorly looked at breeding and conformation wise that he sold for $9500? Believe me I have owned and raced mostly claiming thoroughbreds for 30 years and I love the idea of this guy beating the heavy head millionaires but I think this will be one of the most single telling events to destroy the handle of racing for years to come.

Danzig · #2 05-03-2009, 09:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MISTERGEE

first of all I love horseracing, and I love a good underdog, however I am afraid MTB winning may have made a mockery of the sport and the derby for many.The horse with the slowest of any type of speed figure, with the worst perceived "class", getting his ass beat at Sunland, with a trainer who was 1 for 32 for the year. And not only winning but destroying 18 other of the best of the best available. so poorly looked at breeding and conformation wise that he sold for $9500? Believe me I have owned and raced mostly claiming thoroughbreds for 30 years and I love the idea of this guy beating the heavy head millionaires but I think this will be one of the most single telling events to destroy the handle of racing for years to come.

lol

no way man. it's not a mockery at all. and i doubt it'll affect handle either. sometimes a long shot wins-no one quit going to oaklawn this year when flat out won, or when win willy won either.

hmm. say when win willy won three times fast.

ninetoone · #3 05-03-2009, 09:06 AM

As far as the speed figures, I gotta think Beyer & his followers would have been a lot more content had Summer Bird been the bomb that won.

herkhorse · #4 05-03-2009, 09:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ninetoone

As far as the speed figures, I gotta think Beyer & his followers would have been a lot more content had Summer Bird been the bomb that won.

i'd have been more content too

Danzig · #5 05-03-2009, 09:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ninetoone

As far as the speed figures, I gotta think Beyer & his followers would have been a lot more content had Summer Bird been the bomb that won.

why? beyer's been around this sport longer than a lot of folks have been alive. he knows the occasional bomb comes in, and he knows that sometimes horses run an inexplicable figure that doesn't jibe with anything they've done before-or what they do after.

it's not the end of the world that another 50-1'er won this thing.

Hickory Hill Hoff · #6 05-03-2009, 09:10 AM

Mockery? It's horse racing! Anything can and will happen.

Danzig · #7 05-03-2009, 09:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hickory Hill Hoff

Mockery? It's horse racing! Anything can and will happen.

exactly. i doubt giacomo winning a few years back killed the sport or reduced handle.

ninetoone · #8 05-03-2009, 09:13 AM

His life's work is based on these numbers. He talked about the last out Beyer as a strong predictor of performance in the Derby the day before the race. Don't you think he would have been happier with a Summer Bird victory? I'm not bashing him, but let's get real.

Danzig · #9 05-03-2009, 09:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ninetoone

His life's work is based on these numbers. He talked about the last out Beyer as a strong predictor of performance in the Derby the day before the race. Don't you think he would have been happier with a Summer Bird victory? I'm not bashing him, but let's get real.

seeing as how he picked IWR, i'd think he would be happier had the horse not scratched.

most folks went with previous mud experience and bet the farm on FF. that wasn't based on beyers.
if beyers don't correlate from one surface to another, then i'd imagine they aren't gospel when going from a fast track to a sloppy one.

freddymo · #10 05-03-2009, 10:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danzig

lol

no way man. it's not a mockery at all. and i doubt it'll affect handle either. sometimes a long shot wins-no one quit going to oaklawn this year when flat out won, or when win willy won either.

hmm. say when win willy won three times fast.

Why because these things don't ever happen? You had another 20 claimer in the race.. John Herny was a claimer.. Come on They couldn't give Sunday Silience away as a yearling..

Look I am as surprised as anyone to see the horse move up so much but I doubt it does anything long term to the game.. The track was weird and the colt jumped up.. Let's hope the colt comes back clean, because if he didn't that would seriously harm the game.. Imagine if one the the suspected Chemists were the listed trainer, that colt would need a transfution of blood with the testing that would be done after the race

blackthroatedwind · #11 05-03-2009, 10:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by freddymo

Imagine if one the the suspected Chemists were the listed trainer, that colt would need a transfution of blood with the testing that would be done after the race

No doubt.

Danzig · #12 05-03-2009, 10:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by freddymo

Why because these things don't ever happen? You had another 20 claimer in the race.. John Herny was a claimer.. Come on They couldn't give Sunday Silience away as a yearling..

Look I am as surprised as anyone to see the horse move up so much but I doubt it does anything long term to the game.. The track was weird and the colt jumped up.. Let's hope the colt comes back clean, because if he didn't that would seriously harm the game.. Imagine if one the the suspected Chemists were the listed trainer, that colt would need a transfution of blood with the testing that would be done after the race

since you and i seem to be in agreement, i'm confused a bit by you quoting my post, rather than someone who thinks yesterday is bad long term.

richard burch · #13 05-03-2009, 10:37 AM

this is no problem at all, my wife took the 8 horse!

ca-ching!

DaTruth · #14 05-03-2009, 01:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MISTERGEE

first of all I love horseracing, and I love a good underdog, however I am afraid MTB winning may have made a mockery of the sport and the derby for many.The horse with the slowest of any type of speed figure, with the worst perceived "class", getting his ass beat at Sunland, with a trainer who was 1 for 32 for the year. And not only winning but destroying 18 other of the best of the best available. so poorly looked at breeding and conformation wise that he sold for $9500? Believe me I have owned and raced mostly claiming thoroughbreds for 30 years and I love the idea of this guy beating the heavy head millionaires but I think this will be one of the most single telling events to destroy the handle of racing for years to come.

Far from killing the sport, it gets people talking about the sport. Several friends who aren't racing fans and who didn't even watch the race called me after seeing the stretch run on the news. All they could talk about was how
exciting the race looked and how the horse paid over a $100. I doubt they would have been as excited if Calvin had pulled a wire job and the horse had held on by a nose.

letswastemoney · #15 05-03-2009, 01:15 PM

Mine That Bird beat Advice at Sunland. Advice won the Lexington.

It's not like Mine That Bird was facing claimers, it may have been Sunland but good horses shipped in for a $600k race.

dylbert · #16 05-03-2009, 01:33 PM

Just as in music, racing has its one hit wonders. Anyone heard from Da' Tara lately? Did he ever win another race?

Given the number of races run worldwide, longshots will crop up in graded events. It is just another fact of the game. Would any handicapping angle that I use ever tap Mine That Bird as winner -- let alone, Kentucky Derby winner? The answer is no. If class was mid-level claimer/optional allowance at LaD or FG, I could tab MTB as possible play.

Does anyone have early Breeders' Cup Classic line for MTB?

MISTERGEE · #17 05-03-2009, 02:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaTruth

Far from killing the sport, it gets people talking about the sport. Several friends who aren't racing fans and who didn't even watch the race called me after seeing the stretch run on the news. All they could talk about was how
exciting the race looked and how the horse paid over a $100. I doubt they would have been as excited if Calvin had pulled a wire job and the horse had held on by a nose.

who said anything about killing the sport?

DaTruth · #18 05-03-2009, 03:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MISTERGEE

who said anything about killing the sport?

Maybe you didn't say killed, but "this will be one of the most single telling events to destroy the handle of racing for years to come" is a pretty severe injury.

Seattleallstar · #19 05-03-2009, 07:01 PM

MTB's win both showed the beauty of the sport while at the same time making a mockery of it as well

Gander · #20 05-03-2009, 07:09 PM

I was thinking the same thing today about the odds of this Derby and discussing it with a friend. I didnt see many horses on the board yesterday that were actually good win bets. Certainly I would have loved to have my $200 win ticket on the horse who won and collected 10K, but 50/1 was a huge underlay (if there is such a thing at 50/1) on the winner when you think of the fact that Giacomo was much more accomplished and competitive with top horses than Mine the Bird, and yet pretty much the same price. Mine that Bird should have been over 100/1.

The horse I bet was a terrible price at 12/1- Hold me Back. General Quarters and Chocolate Candy were equally if not worse bets at 9/1. Friesan Fires was a huge underlay at 7/2 and so too was Dunkirk at 5/1. Papa Clem was a puzzling 13/1. Desert Party was a decent stab at 14/1. Thats about the only horse I thought was actually a good price.