Friesan Fire training up to Derby

ateamstupid · #1 03-31-2009, 08:24 PM

http://www.drf.com/news/article/102616.html

Thoughts?

philcski · #2 03-31-2009, 08:29 PM

Terrible decision.

NTamm1215 · #3 03-31-2009, 08:30 PM

I didn't think he was gonna win anyway. But I really don't like him now.

NT

randallscott35 · #4 03-31-2009, 08:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by philcski

Terrible decision.

Wait, he finished 2nd in the last 2 Derbys and did the same thing with Hard Spun 2 years ago who last I looked ran a bang up race.

I'd like the horse more if Jones would allow someone on him in the mornings under 250 pounds...but that's just me.

philcski · #5 03-31-2009, 08:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by randallscott35

Wait, he finished 2nd in the last 2 Derbys and did the same thing with Hard Spun 2 years ago who last I looked ran a bang up race.

I'd like the horse more if Jones would allow someone on him in the mornings under 250 pounds...but that's just me.

I know he did- I loved Hard Spun and he did me quite well in that Derby. However 2 things stick out here- (1) he didn't win, and (2) this is 7 weeks not 6 like Hard Spun, and he wanted a fresh horse for the Derby with Hard Spun because he wanted to utilize his speed- however Friesan Fire doesn't have that advantage. Sure, I think Larry Jones knows what he's doing more than I do. I like this horse a lot, and just think this isn't the best approach to have him ready to WIN.

That same year, Street Sense had a hard race 7 weeks out then had a designed "tuneup" in the Blue Grass, and fired his best shot on Derby Day. Don't you think that's a better comparison?

The Indomitable DrugS · #6 03-31-2009, 08:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by philcski

That same year, Street Sense had a hard race 7 weeks out then had a designed "tuneup" in the Blue Grass, and fired his best shot on Derby Day. Don't you think that's a better comparison?

Not really.

philcski · #7 03-31-2009, 08:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

Not really.

Reason?

(other than Street Sense was 5X the horse Friesan Fire is)

randallscott35 · #8 03-31-2009, 08:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by philcski

I know he did- I loved Hard Spun and he did me quite well in that Derby. However 2 things stick out here- (1) he didn't win, and (2) this is 7 weeks not 6 like Hard Spun, and he wanted a fresh horse for the Derby with Hard Spun because he wanted to utilize his speed- however Friesan Fire doesn't have that advantage. Sure, I think Larry Jones knows what he's doing more than I do. I like this horse a lot, and just think this isn't the best approach to have him ready to WIN.

That same year, Street Sense had a hard race 7 weeks out then had a designed "tuneup" in the Blue Grass, and fired his best shot on Derby Day. Don't you think that's a better comparison?

So you would have liked the horse had it been 6 weeks and not 7? Really. Let me be clear, he is not a horse I would've been playing anyway, but I think a guy who has finished 2nd in the last 2 Derbys gets the benefit of the doubt. I think the horse will run his race, I just don't see him getting 10 panels. But to me at least, it isn't a terrible decision coming off a lifetime top for the horse.

philcski · #9 03-31-2009, 09:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by randallscott35

So you would have liked the horse had it been 6 weeks and not 7? Really. Let me be clear, he is not a horse I would've been playing anyway, but I think a guy who has finished 2nd in the last 2 Derbys gets the benefit of the doubt. I think the horse will run his race, I just don't see him getting 10 panels. But to me at least, it isn't a terrible decision coming off a lifetime top for the horse.

Not at all what I'm saying. They're two different animals and should be treated as such. Just because it (almost) worked with a very special horse doesn't mean it's the right approach for this one.

Oaklawnfan · #10 04-01-2009, 11:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cardus

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't you want to see Friesan Fire "regress" in a race like the Arkansas Derby, and then "move forward" back to a new top in the Derby?

I've been to my share of Ragozin seminars, and it seem as if that is how it works, in Friedman's eyes.

This is really just conjecture on my part, but to run Friesan Fire in the Arkansas Derby would put him head to head with Old Fashion (who really needs to win) which I doubt Mr. Porter would want that. I also think that they probably would rather stay on the dirt so that would let Keenland out too. If anyone could train him up to the Derby, Larry Jones is one who can do it. IMO

Sightseek · #11 03-31-2009, 08:34 PM

If anyone can do it, Jones can.

The horse has been pretty professional in all of his starts and by today's standards has a decent foundation of starts as a two and three year old.

mclem0822 · #12 03-31-2009, 08:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sightseek[B

]If anyone can do it, Jones can[/b].

The horse has been pretty professional in all of his starts and by today's standards has a decent foundation of starts as a two and three year old.

I have alot of respect for Larry Jones, he knows his stuff. I'm sure he's doing what he feels is best for the horse, we'll see how it goes. I'm not saying he's going to win the Derby, but who knows.

dellinger63 · #13 03-31-2009, 08:46 PM

Thought if it poured in Louisville, they sealed the track, it was hugely speed biased, FF drew 5-11, broke perfect getting the lead on soft fractions, he had a chance at holding on for 3rd or 4rth. Now I don't.

DaTruth · #14 03-31-2009, 09:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

http://www.drf.com/news/article/102616.html

Thoughts?

It seems that many of the Derby "rules" have been tossed aside the last few years. The 2yo champ/BC Juvy winner is a throwout, the last prep has to be within four weeks, etc. The training game has changed much in the last 20 years, so perhaps the old rules no longer hold so much sway. Nowadays, it is common for a top horse to show up in a major stakes without a prep. Not too long ago, that same horse would have tuned up in a allowance or minor stakes at a sprint distance.

Larry did an amazing job getting Hard Spun and Eight Belles to run peak efforts in the Derby. He definitely knows what he is doing. If he feels that there is not much to gain but more to lose from another race before the Derby, then I trust his judgment.

Friesan Fire has raced four times at a mile or more since mid December. He has spent four months training and racing over the deep Fair Grounds surface. He may not have the ability to win the Derby, but he is going to be dead fit come May 2nd.

CSC · #15 04-01-2009, 12:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

http://www.drf.com/news/article/102616.html

Thoughts?

I think the day of 3 prep, 4 prep campaigns before the derby are becoming obsolete. Why that is I just don't know for sure...

declansharbor · #16 04-01-2009, 01:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

http://www.drf.com/news/article/102616.html

Thoughts?

I look at it like this. From a standpoint of someone that isnt going to play him in the Derby, I like the decision. With his current running lines, alot of novice money will be thrown his direction. Had he raced again before May and disappointed, some/most people would've hopped off his bandwagon IMO.

That said, I'm sure LJ knows whats best for his horses. If he loses in early May, I doubt it will be the time off that did him in. As someone said previously, it will probably be due to the stretchout to 9 panels +.

I can see him pulling ahead of the cavalry charge at the top of the straightaway only to be overtaken in mid-sretch by a handful of horses and finish anywheres from 6-9.

booner · #17 04-01-2009, 02:30 PM

I'm in the camp of the "no 1 1/8" group. I think this will be a bigger issue than the layoff.