10/3 (KEE): First Lady & Alcibiades (Gr. I's)

[Kasept]

8th (4:40) First Lady S. (G1)

1 Mile (Turf) | Fillies and Mares | 3 Year Olds And Up Stakes | Purse: $400,000

1 Precious Kitten Bejarano R 123 L
2 Dreaming of Anna Douglas R R 123 LA
3 Rutherienne Gomez G K 123 L
4 Roshani Velazquez J R 123 LA
5 Bayou's Lassie Albarado R J 123 LA
6 Forever Together Leparoux J R 123 L
7 Rosinka (IRE) Rose J 123 L
8 Stormy West Desormeaux K J 123 LA



9th (5:10) Darley Alcibiades S. (G1)

1 1/16 Miles (All Weather Track) | Fillies | 2 Year Olds Stakes | Purse: $500,000

1 Be Smart Gomez G K 118 L
2 Devotee Coa E M 118 L
3 Bon Jovi Girl Caraballo J C 118 LA
4 August Rush Garcia J A 118 Blk-Off L
5 Mani Bhavan Garcia Alan 118 LA
6 Dream Empress Albarado R J 118 LA
7 Amanwella Rose J 118 LA

[Lava]

I like Bon Jovi Girl in this spot with lots of speed for her to run at.

Originally Posted by Lava

I like Bon Jovi Girl in this spot with lots of speed for her to run at.

call me crazy, but i was thinking Jeremy Rose would take the # 7 back a little and she could possibly get a dream run on all the speed.

[zippyneedsawin]

Call me crazy... but I have no idea how any of these 2 yo's will run on this surface.

Originally Posted by zippyneedsawin

Call me crazy... but I have no idea how any of these 2 yo's will run on this surface.

i dont like the favorite at all, that beyer decline is scary, as well as the race being packed with early speed, and me thinking she wants no part of the stretch out, the FU PEG filly was the only thing i could really come up with, and feel like im going to get a clean trip and possibly make one good run

[zippyneedsawin]

Originally Posted by hrfan

i dont like the favorite at all, that beyer decline is scary, as well as the race being packed with early speed, and me thinking she wants no part of the stretch out, the FU PEG filly was the only thing i could really come up with, and feel like im going to get a clean trip and possibly make one good run

Certainly worth taking a shot against the favorite under these conditions. good luck.

[lemoncrush]

Originally Posted by hrfan

i dont like the favorite at all, that beyer decline is scary, as well as the race being packed with early speed, and me thinking she wants no part of the stretch out, the FU PEG filly was the only thing i could really come up with, and feel like im going to get a clean trip and possibly make one good run

Because its Keenland and the great unknown about how these 2-yo fillies will handle the surface, is probably reason enough to try to beat Mani Bhavan.
That being said, I don't see any world beaters in here, and it's entirely possible that she can stalk if needed, and stretch out as well.
The group she beat in the Adriondak (Bold Union, Doremifasolatedo, etc..) was probably better than what she beat in the Spinaway.

[ateamstupid]

Originally Posted by zippyneedsawin

Call me crazy... but I have no idea how any of these 2 yo's will run on this surface.

You're not crazy. You seem to be one of the few who prefers racing to roulette.

[Bobby Fischer]

The first thing that you notice in this edition of the Acibiades is the lack of turf routers. Evident that a top 5(maybe top 10) 2yo filly turf router could earn a placing here, probably much easier and more prestigious than alternative turf stakes placing.

Devotee should really benefit from having quicker opposing speed. Coa will be forced to rate just a bit off the leaders. Probably see her handle the poly and distance.

Dream Empress is kind of a 7f turf filly with moderate ability, but she can pick up some pieces here with a steady finish.


Then there is Bon Jovi Girl who looks cheap but could suck-up for a piece with a conservative ride.

The rest are sprinters.

[SniperSB23]

Originally Posted by Bobby Fischer

The first thing that you notice in this edition of the Acibiades is the lack of turf routers. Evident that a top 5(maybe top 10) 2yo filly turf router could earn a placing here, probably much easier and more prestigious than alternative turf stakes placing.

Devotee should really benefit from having quicker opposing speed. Coa will be forced to rate just a bit off the leaders. Probably see her handle the poly and distance.

Dream Empress is kind of a 7f turf filly with moderate ability, but she can pick up some pieces here with a steady finish.


Then there is Bon Jovi Girl who looks cheap but could suck-up for a piece with a conservative ride.

The rest are sprinters.

They are all in the Miss Grillo trying to get a spot in the BC Juvy Fillies Turf.

[RolloTomasi]

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

I'm not trying to be a di.ck and I get what you are saying, but at this point, does anyone even know who the top 5 or 10 2 year old filly turf routers are?

It all depends. When you looked at the field for the Alcibiades, a main track Grade 1, was the first thing you noticed a lack of turf runners?

[Bobby Fischer]

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

I'm not trying to be a di.ck and I get what you are saying, but at this point, does anyone even know who the top 5 or 10 2 year old filly turf routers are?

fair question.
I think you would pretty much have to go by a good animal who has good turf breeding, and trust the trainer's judgement that he has a pretty good turf routing filly on his hands...

Taking a peek at the Miss Grillo, there aren't even that many great turf pedigrees in there. Maybe turf isn't what's hot, or maybe the few classy ones aren't being unveiled at 2?


I am really driving at a turf horse who may not be quite good enough to win(or even place?) the Miss Grillo, but could boost her resume and earnings with a placing in Acibiades.
Maram looks like she could be a good candidate, after looking over the Grillo PPs, but take it easy if she wins the Grillo

[Bobby Fischer]

My Bad

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

No. But I also didn't look at the Alcibiades on the poly and notice a lack of turf runners.

i looked at it and like a lot of times am disapointed that this is a grade 1

[RolloTomasi]

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

No. But I also didn't look at the Alcibiades on the poly and notice a lack of turf runners.

That was classic. After all that "first glance lack of 2yo turf runners" stuff from BF, sure enough the runaway winner of the race was a filly coming off the turf (with a big Beyer for the field) that went off 2nd favorite.

[Bobby Fischer]

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi

After all that "first glance lack of 2yo turf runners" stuff from BF, sure enough the runaway winner of the race was a filly coming off the turf (with a big Beyer for the field) that went off 2nd favorite.

told u so lol.

- unfortunately although i think i may have picked the Alcibiades, the Grillo,
AND did some arm-chair owner/trainer moves as well

- I lost $24 on Amanwella

[RolloTomasi]

Originally Posted by Bobby Fischer

told u so lol.

I hope you're joking.

While you're point of looking for turf runners on Keeneland's polytrack was certainly valid (though not particularly a revelation), you were way off base with your analysis.

Firstly, there wasn't a "lack of turf fillies". 2 of the 7 runners started on turf. Secondly, you said Dream Empress was a useful "sprint" turf filly, even though her maiden win was in a route. Thirdly, you considered her of modest ability, even though she had the highest Beyer figure in the field for a two turn race. Not to mention she was favored in both prior starts and was 3rd choice on the morning line and actual betting favorite until a couple of minutes before post time.

[blackthroatedwind]

The most interesting thing about the 2YO stakes at Keeneland this weekend is that they are further ( and probably unnecessary ) proof that Keeneland now has two turf courses and no " main " track, so to speak. Look at who won the Alcibiades and look at the travesty that is the Breeder's Futurity on Saturday ( and then compare it to the loaded Champagne ). Keeneland has forced genuine dirt horses to go elsewhere and is rewarding either turf horses or mediocrities. Look at the field for the Spinster for even more proof.....if you somehow need it.

If people like to bet Polytrack, that's great, and I don't criticize that. However, to suggest it bears any resemblence to dirt racing, and to equate the accomplishments of horses in major races on that surface to those that succeed in major dirt races is absolute folly.

[King Glorious]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

The most interesting thing about the 2YO stakes at Keeneland this weekend is that they are further ( and probably unnecessary ) proof that Keeneland now has two turf courses and no " main " track, so to speak. Look at who won the Alcibiades and look at the travesty that is the Breeder's Futurity on Saturday ( and then compare it to the loaded Champagne ). Keeneland has forced genuine dirt horses to go elsewhere and is rewarding either turf horses or mediocrities. Look at the field for the Spinster for even more proof.....if you somehow need it.

If people like to bet Polytrack, that's great, and I don't criticize that. However, to suggest it bears any resemblence to dirt racing, and to equate the accomplishments of horses in major races on that surface to those that succeed in major dirt races is absolute folly.

It's worse than folly. It's downright silly. I had a debate on the other forum with people actually saying that the synthetics played pretty formful at SA last weekend. Seriously. They said that was proof that the synthetics were fair and allowing the best horses to win. To an extent, that was true. But they left out the important part. It played formful to horses that had already established synthetic form. It didn't show us anything as far as how horses that perform well on real dirt would do. We already knew Zenyatta, Street Hero, Cost of Freedom, Well Armed, Street Boss, and Stardom Bound could run over the synthetics because they have been doing it. We already knew that Hystericalady hated the stuff as evidenced by her record over it compared to her record over dirt. So what did we see over the weekend? More of the same. Yet they are somehow arguing the point that the stuff plays fair and allows the best horses to win. It allows the best synthetic horses to win. Not the best dirt horses.

[blackthroatedwind]

Right, and that's all OK, as long as people don't mix it in with dirt racing. If they want to mix it in with anything, it should be turf, as it does what turf racing does in a general sense, which is reduce the margins between horses, and overall reward mediocrity. Of course there are extreme counterexamples.....but this is exactly what both surfaces do overall.