Rank the best 3 year olds of this decade

[Gander]

From 2000 on:

I would add that this is based on only their 3 year old season and not how they became when they turned 4, but only 2 of these did anything past the age of 3 and I have them at 9 and 10 on my list anyways so thats a given.
Beside them I added their single most impressive race:

1) Point Given- Belmont Stakes
2) Smarty Jones- KY Derby
3) Big Brown- KY Derby
4) Curlin- BC Classic
5) Bernardini- Preakness
6) Barbaro- KY Derby
7) Afleet Alex- Preakness
8) Monarchos- KY Derby
9) Empire Maker- Belmont
10) Funny Cide- Preakness

[ddthetide]

Originally Posted by Gander

From 2000 on:

I would add that this is based on only their 3 year old season and not how they became when they turned 4, but only 2 of these did anything past the age of 3 and I have them at 9 and 10 on my list anyways so thats a given.
Beside them I added their single most impressive race:

1) Point Given- Belmont Stakes
2) Smarty Jones- KY Derby
3) Big Brown- KY Derby
4) Fusaichi Pegasus- KY Derby
5) Bernardini- Preakness
6) Afleet Alex- Preakness
7) Monarchos- KY Derby
8) Empire Maker- Belmont
9) Medaglia D' Oro- Travers
10) Funny Cide- Preakness

AA Crushed the belmont that ran against him.

[Gander]

Originally Posted by ddthetide

AA Crushed the belmont that ran against him.

I know, but I thought him almost falling down and still romping in the Preakness was a little more impressive.

I just revised my list. Oops, I forgot Barbaro. Off goes Funny Cide.

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by Gander

From 2000 on:

I would add that this is based on only their 3 year old season and not how they became when they turned 4, but only 2 of these did anything past the age of 3 and I have them at 9 and 10 on my list anyways so thats a given.
Beside them I added their single most impressive race:

1) Point Given- Belmont Stakes
2) Smarty Jones- KY Derby
3) Big Brown- KY Derby
4) Curlin- BC Classic
5) Bernardini- Preakness
6) Barbaro- KY Derby
7) Afleet Alex- Preakness
8) Monarchos- KY Derby
9) Empire Maker- Belmont
10) Funny Cide- Preakness

These lists always make for great banter and it was brave of you to throw this out there.

A couple of things I disagree with:

1. Where is Tiznow? Horse wins the super derby, goodwood and beats a really good BC Classic field (giants causeway, captain steve, lemon drop kid, albert the great, golden missile, fusaichi pegasus) and runs a 119 beyer in the fall of his 3 year old year. Surely he was more accomplished than half of this list.

2. No Fusaichi Pegasus and you have Barbaro? Fupeg won san felipe, wood, derby and jerome and was second in the preakness. Barbaro won fla and ky derby. Surely fupeg was the more accomplished horse.

3. How about War Emblem? wins two third of the crown along with illinois and haskell. Was that not more than Monarchos?

4. How was Smarty Jones's ky derby more impressive than his Preakness? The derby was a procession around a sloppy track where speed held enough to have lion heart complete the exacta. The Preakness was on a deep, dry and sandy track where he obliterated his foes in one of the best performances in a classic i have ever seen.


Dont take me wrong Gander. Again, it takes guts to put up a list like this. I just disagree on a couple of things.

Cheers.

[Danzig]

i don't think you can make a list of top 3 yo's and then leave off tiznow. well, i guess you can, since it just happened.
and i don't think bernies preakness was better than barbaros derby. and how can curlin be on there, but not street sense? only a head bob gave curlin the second leg, while street sense romped in the first. of course curlin won the bcc, but it was the same group of three year olds, and no older horses to speak of....
obviously, can only have ten on there. also hard to include big brown, since it's only august. also, regarding big brown...i think his florida derby was more impressive than the kentucky.

[Gander]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

These lists always make for great banter and it was brave of you to throw this out there.

A couple of things I disagree with:

1. Where is Tiznow? Horse wins the super derby, goodwood and beats a really good BC Classic field (giants causeway, captain steve, lemon drop kid, albert the great, golden missile, fusaichi pegasus) and runs a 119 beyer in the fall of his 3 year old year. Surely he was more accomplished than half of this list. Should have him on there. I cant believe I left out a horse I actually cashed a huge ticket on (2nd year he won the Classic)

2. No Fusaichi Pegasus and you have Barbaro? Fupeg won san felipe, wood, derby and jerome and was second in the preakness. Barbaro won fla and ky derby. Surely fupeg was the more accomplished horse. I had Fu Peg on there but decided to take him out. I actually replaced him with Barbaro. Sorry, he lost to Red Bullet and then never did anything else.

3. How about War Emblem? wins two third of the crown along with illinois and haskell. Was that not more than Monarchos? Yes it was more than Monarchos, but I thought he got away with a theft job in the Derby and just wasnt that impressed. But I cant fault you for thinking he belongs. Monarchos Derby was one of the most impressive Derby wins in recent history imo

4. How was Smarty Jones's ky derby more impressive than his Preakness? The derby was a procession around a sloppy track where speed held enough to have lion heart complete the exacta. The Preakness was on a deep, dry and sandy track where he obliterated his foes in one of the best performances in a classic i have ever seen. Yes, I stand corrected. I just watched both races, both very impressive. He would have won the Derby on a dry track too, but I get your point.


Dont take me wrong Gander. Again, it takes guts to put up a list like this. I just disagree on a couple of things.

Cheers.

Thanks. Side note- I feel kind of bad for having Empire Maker on there and not my guy Funny Cide. I couldnt include both and they were 2-2 in their head to head battles. Funny Cide won 2/3rd of the Triple Crown and the most important race beating his nemesis. You can argue Empire Maker wasnt 100% in the Derby but you can also argue that the mud played a huge role in Funny Cide's demise at the Belmont.

[Gander]

Originally Posted by Danzig

i don't think you can make a list of top 3 yo's and then leave off tiznow. well, i guess you can, since it just happened.
and i don't think bernies preakness was better than barbaros derby. and how can curlin be on there, but not street sense? only a head bob gave curlin the second leg, while street sense romped in the first. of course curlin won the bcc, but it was the same group of three year olds, and no older horses to speak of....
obviously, can only have ten on there. also hard to include big brown, since it's only august. also, regarding big brown...i think his florida derby was more impressive than the kentucky.

I disagree. I thought Big Brown looked much better in the KY Derby. He beat better horses and looked more imposing. And what more does Big brown need to do? His resume is awesome, regardless of what happens. He won the 2 races Curlin lost.
I thought about Street Sense, but he lost 3 of his last 4 races. The one he won (Travers), he was all out to beat Grasshopper, a horse who has been very mediocre (and I am being nice) since then.

[largo1]

Not to be picky,,, but what did Empire Maker do past the age of 3? I'm positive he didn't race at 4. Maybe I misunderstood???

Suzanne

[otisotisotis]

how about my boy Hansel?

At 3:
Won Preakness S. [G1], Belmont S. [G1], Jim Beam S. [G2], Lexington S. [G2]
2nd Travers S. [G1]
3rd Florida Derby [G1], Haskell Invitational H. [G1]

1991 Eclipse Champion Three Year Old Male.

EDIT - Sorry, didn't see it was for this decade, nevermind......

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Gander

I disagree. I thought Big Brown looked much better in the KY Derby. He beat better horses and looked more imposing. And what more does Big brown need to do? His resume is awesome, regardless of what happens. He won the 2 races Curlin lost.
I thought about Street Sense, but he lost 3 of his last 4 races. The one he won (Travers), he was all out to beat Grasshopper, a horse who has been very mediocre (and I am being nice) since then.

perhaps at years' end you would find he should be higher...personally, i would not put him above bernardini-altho that one faced suspect company, much like big brown, his second to invasor was an excellent race, and helped show his easy win after easy win vs other 3 yo's was no fluke.

as for street sense, one of those races he lost was on poly, never as good a surface for him as dirt. i also thought his tampa bay derby was excellent. but very true about grasshopper! perhaps GH was last years coal play...

also, i think any 3 yo who defeated older should be given more respect than a horse who hasn't.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by largo1

Not to be picky,,, but what did Empire Maker do past the age of 3? I'm positive he didn't race at 4. Maybe I misunderstood???

Suzanne

he didn't run past three.

[SCUDSBROTHER]

How 'bout dat Superwoman named Lethal Heat? She's my favorite 3 year old of the decade. She may not be the best, but she's an assassin(with attitude.)

[GenuineRisk]

Originally Posted by largo1

Not to be picky,,, but what did Empire Maker do past the age of 3? I'm positive he didn't race at 4. Maybe I misunderstood???

Suzanne

I think Gander amended the list since his first post- look at the list ddthetide quotes; it has Medaglia d'Oro in the number 9 position. Took me a bit to figure it out, too.

Fun thread, Gander- thanks for putting it up.

[dalakhani]

Gander-

If you are being completely objective, how has Big Brown done anything superior to War Emblem to date?

If anything, War Emblem was superior in terms of figs and in terms of ease of victory.

Furthermore, how has Barbaro done more than Fusaichi pegasus? The pegasus won an extra graded stake in the fall and was second in the preakness. Regardless of how sad his death was, how can that ranking of Barbaro be considered anything but bias or projection when there are horses that are more accomplished?

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

Gander-

If you are being completely objective, how has Big Brown done anything superior to War Emblem to date?

If anything, War Emblem was superior in terms of figs and in terms of ease of victory.

Furthermore, how has Barbaro done more than Fusaichi pegasus? The pegasus won an extra graded stake in the fall and was second in the preakness. Regardless of how sad his death was, how can that ranking of Barbaro be considered anything but bias or projection when there are horses that are more accomplished?

and war emblems competition included med d'oro, who was also on the original list.

as for barbaro, people tend to focus solely on his derby-for good reason, it was a damn good effort on his part-but then pay no attention to his races beforehand. yeah, he didn't do anything after the derby, but he did plenty before.
bernie may well have won the preakness that day regardless, but i think that bernardini would not have won out the year til the bcc had barbaro been around to take him on again.

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by Danzig

and war emblems competition included med d'oro, who was also on the original list.

as for barbaro, people tend to focus solely on his derby-for good reason, it was a damn good effort on his part-but then pay no attention to his races beforehand. yeah, he didn't do anything after the derby, but he did plenty before.
bernie may well have won the preakness that day regardless, but i think that bernardini would not have won out the year til the bcc had barbaro been around to take him on again.

Dont get wrong- I have plenty of respect for Barbaro as a racehorse and if you cover up the name on the saddlecloth and just watched the races, you would come away thinking that this was one fine animal.

The thing is, if we are going to put it on paper, is his body of work before the derby out of this world? I mean it was good but nothing for the ages. A life and death win in the fla derby over sharp humor. A life and death win in the slop over Great Point. Two impressive turf wins. Nice resume but again, nothing for the ages and certainly, IMHO, not enough to put him over the likes of War Emblem.

I agree on the talent and i think he and bernardini would have been a nice matchup that year.

[hi_im_god]

1) saarland
2) dollar bill
3) big brown
4) perfect drift
5) read the footnotes

[AeWingnut]

Originally Posted by Gander

Thanks. Side note- I feel kind of bad for having Empire Maker on there and not my guy Funny Cide. I couldnt include both and they were 2-2 in their head to head battles. Funny Cide won 2/3rd of the Triple Crown and the most important race beating his nemesis. You can argue Empire Maker wasnt 100% in the Derby but you can also argue that the mud played a huge role in Funny Cide's demise at the Belmont.

Funny Cide deserves to be over Empire Maker simply because he continued racing and that Makes him better than most of them.

[AeWingnut]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

Dont get wrong- I have plenty of respect for Barbaro as a racehorse and if you cover up the name on the saddlecloth and just watched the races, you would come away thinking that this was one fine animal.

The thing is, if we are going to put it on paper, is his body of work before the derby out of this world? I mean it was good but nothing for the ages. A life and death win in the fla derby over sharp humor. A life and death win in the slop over Great Point. Two impressive turf wins. Nice resume but again, nothing for the ages and certainly, IMHO, not enough to put him over the likes of War Emblem.

I agree on the talent and i think he and bernardini would have been a nice matchup that year.

I remember the race differently than you. Barbaro won easily with Great Point flying past the quitters for place. There was no life or death about it. Great Point never saw anything other than Barbaro's behind.

[letswastemoney]

I don't think Big Brown should be on there.

Sure he won 4 grade 1s....but any other horse on that list would beat him. It's just that because Big Brown is part of this generation, it makes him look impressive because there is no one else out there.

Even Funny Cide would beat Big Brown at their respective best form. Funny Cide ran beyers of 110, 109 I think, and 114 in his Wood Memorial to Preakness run.

What is Big Brown's highest beyer on dirt...109?