Scat Daddy was "Impressive" Today

I guess Oracle should go correct Pletcher tomorrow considering he knows everything.

"It was impressive what he did the last 50 or 60 yards," Pletcher said. "The Hopeful (gr. I, $250,000, seven furlongs, Sept. 4) will be the most logical thing."


"The good news now is that he has an educational trip under his belt," said Pletcher, Saratoga's leading trainer the past four years who won his third Sanford. "He got dirt in his face and he was down inside and he was a little green. Once (Velazquez) got him outside and in the clear, he got into that big stride he's got. I didn't think he was going to get there."

[miraja2]

What do you expect the trainer to say, "My horse ran like a 3-legged mule!!"

Listen I don't know why you and Oracle get after each other so much about this topic. Personally I think the two most impressive performances I have seen by a 2yo this year were CQ's maiden win and CQ's Bashford win. You disagree and have your reasons. Okay fine.
I have a lot of respect for what you and Oracle have to say about the sport, and I really can't understand why you two can't discuss the 2yo this year without getting nasty.
Oh well....just my two cents.

[lemoncrush]

I agree with Miraja2.
CQ's races have both been extremely visually impressive to me. Push-button acceleration that reminded me of Afleet Alex. But there's no reason to get up into each other's face about 2-yos right now.
There will be so many impressive maiden winners at the Spa and Del Mar this summer, including the long-awaited debut by the Green Monkey. You should agree to disagree and move on.

[Scav]

Because they are from New York and 50% of the people there have no clue how to argue constructively, besides name calling....Us people from Chicago know how to argue constructively, which is why Chicago RULES...

(only 4 images allowed, otherwise, I was going to go nuts with smileys)

(For the record, I am totally kidding about this, but we haven't had a Chicago vs NY battle in SOME TIME, YANKEES SUCK)

I didn't start the thread addressed to me. Unlike most, I don't let people like Oracle push me around. He knows more than me, but I am going to guess I have more money invested in it than he does. From what I can tell Cunningham is another invested in the business that Oracle likes to try to push around and like Cunningham, I stick up for myself.

Originally Posted by boldruler

I didn't start the thread addressed to me. Unlike most, I don't let people like Oracle push me around. He knows more than me, but I am going to guess I have more money invested in it than he does. From what I can tell Cunningham is another invested in the business that Oracle likes to try to push around and like Cunningham, I stick up for myself.

1) You are a jerkoff
2) You think that these supposed experts you refer know more than someone like myself or Blackthroat, big mistake dude.
3) I like you because you are enthusiatic and getting into the game.
4) You don't know enough about the game yet to argue intelligently about it and thats where the problems lie. Anyone with a brain knows that the horse was not "green" yesterday. He encountered minor traffic trouble and then was fully extended beaten and scrubbed to narrowly get in up in a time that was only one second faster than an 0-15 Ny bred maiden and 3YO claimer.
Any novice would even realize that the expectations that guys like you and Joel heard from your "sources"(who are also jerk offs) are obviously not going to be achieved.
5) You try and play both sides of every coin, and you look like a moron when you do so. You tell everyone not to bet a 2YO heavily like Cotton Blossom at 8-1 yet you think its a good idea to bet a favorite making his debut on turf at a short price, yeah, ok, sure. Then you claim to have bet Blossom(you are welcome if you did). At some point in order to have any credibility you must concede error. You obviously think these clowns, and they are clowns, know more more than folks like me. You are sadly mistaken.

Originally Posted by oracle80

1) You are a jerkoff
2) You think that these supposed experts you refer know more than someone like myself or Blackthroat, big mistake dude.
3) I like you because you are enthusiatic and getting into the game.
4) You don't know enough about the game yet to argue intelligently about it and thats where the problems lie. Anyone with a brain knows that the horse was not "green" yesterday. He encountered minor traffic trouble and then was fully extended beaten and scrubbed to narrowly get in up in a time that was only one second faster than an 0-15 Ny bred maiden and 3YO claimer.
Any novice would even realize that the expectations that guys like you and Joel heard from your "sources"(who are also jerk offs) are obviously not going to be achieved.
5) You try and play both sides of every coin, and you look like a moron when you do so. You tell everyone not to bet a 2YO heavily like Cotton Blossom at 8-1 yet you think its a good idea to bet a favorite making his debut on turf at a short price, yeah, ok, sure. Then you claim to have bet Blossom(you are welcome if you did). At some point in order to have any credibility you must concede error. You obviously think these clowns, and they are clowns, know more more than folks like me. You are sadly mistaken.

Truth hurts.

1) Please show me where I said not to bet the horse. I am still waiting.
2) You act like I bet him because you gave it out. Memo to world, if Oracle gives out a Pletcher/Velasquez horse than if you bet him/her Oracle gets all the credit. He was a Pletcher/Velasquez horse in a two yr old race that went off at 8-1. I put $20 on him, not real money. Great value bet.
3) I am still trying to figure out where I said the people I know have more knowledge than you. Please show me that too.
4) Oracle says I don't know enough to argue, but I can assure you there are owners, big owners of some of the top horses, that know next to nothing about the game. I guess they can spend millions but they aren't allowed to have an opinon. LOL.

Originally Posted by boldruler

Truth hurts.

1) Please show me where I said not to bet the horse. I am still waiting.
2) You act like I bet him because you gave it out. Memo to world, if Oracle gives out a Pletcher/Velasquez horse than if you bet him/her Oracle gets all the credit. He was a Pletcher/Velasquez horse in a two yr old race that went off at 8-1. I put $20 on him, not real money. Great value bet.
3) I am still trying to figure out where I said the people I know have more knowledge than you. Please show me that too.
4) Oracle says I don't know enough to argue, but I can assure you there are owners, big owners of some of the top horses, that know next to nothing about the game. I guess they can spend millions but they aren't allowed to have an opinon. LOL.

You said not to bet the horse heavily because of how 2yo's change blah blah blah. I can pull up that post and will do so!!!!

[miraja2]

Originally Posted by oracle80

1) Anyone with a brain knows that the horse was not "green" yesterday.

Hey Oracle, I am 100% with you about Circular Quay, but I don't know about the above comment. Pletcher did say that he looked green, and I am pretty sure he has a brain.
He looked green to me too. Personally I don't think he will be in CQ's league even when he gets a little more seasoning, but to me he certainly looked green yesterday. Apparently I have no brain.

Originally Posted by oracle80

You said not to bet the horse heavily because of how 2yo's change blah blah blah. I can pull up that post and will do so!!!!

I am still waiting. I know what I said and you are twisting my words.

http://www.derbytrail.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2304
Twist that you spin artist.

Originally Posted by oracle80

http://www.derbytrail.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2304
Twist that you spin artist.

Twist what? It says exactly what I said and believe, betting heavily on a 2yr old is not a wise move. Read it. The race illustrated my point when the favorite stumbled from the gate.

You know I said in Lansdon's thread he should let you buy him a KY derby horse, but that isn't enough for you. You want 100% praise from people all the time.

Fact- 2yr olds are unpredictable. Bet at your own risk.

Originally Posted by boldruler

Twist what? It says exactly what I said and believe, betting heavily on a 2yr old is not a wise move. Read it. The race illustrated my point when the favorite stumbled from the gate.

Yet your beliefs on wagering include betting heavily on a horse making his debut on the grass in a million dollar race as the favorite? Is this correct?

Originally Posted by oracle80

Yet your beliefs on wagering include betting heavily on a horse making his debut on the grass in a million dollar race as the favorite? Is this correct?

Huge Difference. He was an experienced horse. Last I checked he just got out of a 20 horse race called the KY Derby.

It was his debut in a race on the grass, but it was far from his first time on the grass. Everyone who watched him in the morning could tell he was born for the grass. He had multiple works over it and even Tagg became a believer. Trust me, Showing Up is a future superstar. The same guys that said Barbaro would be a star are that high on this horse, but only on the turf. They aren't that impressed with him on the dirt.

Let's just say Showing Up has come into his own. He even got his own big write up in the NYT. The text is here. I cut out a few paragraphs for copyright reasons.

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/07/18/sp...=1&oref=slogin

Change to the Turf Offers Horse a Chance to Show Off

By BILL FINLEY
Published: July 18, 2006

They have been linked since spring, two colts who shared the same owners and were undefeated when they entered the starting gate for the Kentucky Derby. A photo even showed them running side by side as the 20 horses in the Derby fought for position in the mile-and-a-quarter race. One of the two horses, Barbaro, went on to win the Derby in dynamic fashion only to injure himself in the Preakness Stakes. The other, Showing Up, finished sixth, 10 lengths back.

Now, two months later, Barbaro is struggling to survive in the aftermath of his injury, a gripping and emotional tale being played out nearly every day in the news media. But off to the side, Showing Up is emerging as a horse that may be special, too, offering some solace to the owners Roy and Gretchen Jackson as they endure Barbaro’s plight.

The twists in this story are considerable, among them the fact that Barbaro began racing on the grass, then shifted to the dirt, while Showing Up has done the opposite, shifting from the dirt to the turf. And while Showing Up will forever be in Barbaro’s shadow, he is creating attention, nonetheless.

“Everybody who gets on him says he’s as good a horse as they’ve ever sat on,” said Showing Up’s trainer, Barclay Tagg, also the trainer of Funny Cide, the 2003 Kentucky Derby and Preakness winner. “The jockey thinks he’s a super horse. I’m a guarded person and I don’t like to get too excited, but he’s done everything we’ve asked of him.”

Unraced until February, Showing Up won his first three starts before running in the Derby. He was at a disadvantage against more seasoned colts and finished out of the money with the regular rider Cornelio Velasquez aboard.

After the Derby, Tagg reasoned that he needed to stay out of the way of Barbaro, who is trained by Michael Matz. Not only did Barbaro appear a cinch to win the Triple Crown, but Tagg figured that Barbaro had the 3-year-old championship locked up the instant he crossed the wire in the Derby.


“He’s bred for the turf,” Tagg said. “His father was a turf horse, and he has turf breeding on the dam’s side of his pedigree. As well as he ran on the dirt, I just thought he moved better on the turf. Besides, there was a point where I was convinced Barbaro would win the Triple Crown. I didn’t want to run against him in the Preakness or Belmont. It was a no-brainer.”

For the Jacksons, Showing Up’s emergence has been good news during a tough and draining period in which Barbaro remains in the intensive care unit of the George D. Widener Hospital for Large Animals in Kennett Square, Pa.

“Yes, he has helped ease the pain because we missed seeing a star on the racetrack,” Gretchen Jackson said during a telephone interview last week. “With Barbaro, there will always be sadness and the thought that he never got to finish out the type of career we were hoping for. Nothing will replace that, but to have this other horse come along is something else.”

Showing Up would have been heavily favored in last Saturday’s $1 million Virginia Derby, but Tagg did not want to run his horse again on just three weeks’ rest. Still, he has big plans for Showing Up, who was purchased for just $60,000 last year at a sale of 2-year-olds. Tagg said that Barbaro deserved to be the 3-year-old champion, an award usually given to a dirt horse, but he added that Showing Up could be named the male turf champion.
With that goal in mind, he has mapped out a schedule that consists of the Secretariat Stakes on Aug. 12 at Arlington Park, the Joe Hirsch Turf Classic on Oct. 7 at Belmont and the Breeders’ Cup Turf on Nov. 4 at Churchill Downs. Sweeping those races may not compare to what Barbaro could have accomplished, but it would be fine in its own right.

And for the Jacksons, it will certainly be something to look forward to.

[mnmark]

Why dont you guys quit your arguing. This site is for opinions and thoughts, right wrong or inderfernet. If you dont agree with any opinions thoughts or anything else move on or get over it .You dont have to take any thoughts or opinions seriously if you choose not to. . This is a great site and I have seen very little of this. Lets try to keep it this way.

Originally Posted by mnmark

Why dont you guys quit your arguing. This site is for opinions and thoughts, right wrong or inderfernet. If you dont agree with any opinions thoughts or anything else move on or get over it .You dont have to take any thoughts or opinions seriously if you choose not to. . This is a great site and I have seen very little of this. Lets try to keep it this way.

Take your skirt off. People are allowed to argue. This is all the buildup to when somebody will have to eat their words. Showing Up will smoke English Channel and CQ will run a distant 3rd in the Hopeful.

CQ is very impressive, I just felt Oracle went a little overboard. So far he has been right and I have been wrong on that one.

However, Showing Up smoked their IEAH boy Kip Deville, and Oracle shot off his mouth about how a different jockey would have made the difference. That different jockey did him a whole lot of good in the last one. I think he is still running. I still haven't heard Oracle admit SU is a better horse.

I thought the first two were impressive today and will go on to better things in the future.

Scat Daddy was very green and moves up to 7F in his next race.

I loved his burst once he got clear...remember, he is a baby and was clearly running greenly on the inside and with the dirt hitting him....his head was straight up in the air and he was moving very awkwardly before Johnny V got him out and let him mark that other horse...once he did it was over...

His ability and upside is crazy....I'm not crazy by the way he moves his left front anfd I hope is doesn't cause soundness issues down the road because he is a big horse, but I really firmly believe that he is the most talented juvenile in the country right now....and yes, that means that he is better than Circular Quay...As a matter of fact, I was in Ocala earlier this week and I heard from many sources around there that the barn believes he is by far their best 2YO, but then again, I have heaqrd and thought that for months now ever since he outworked Minefield twice at CD in the weeks leading up to the Derby....this horse is a runner and his narrow win will only help his price in the Hopeful because he WILL win that race too...

Additionally, if he can prove to negotiate 1 1/16 miles (which, I admit, is a big question mark to me despite his long stride), then he is your BC Juvy winner IMO......we'll see...a lot of racing to be done before that race but I know he is the goods....anybody that thinks his narrow win over a maiden was a poor effort doesn't understand how to watch a race IMO.....he was running green and in tight, cumbersome spots for half of a mile before getting clear.....remember, these are babies and they have much to learn on the experience front.....

[1st_Saturday_in_May]

Originally Posted by boldruler

That different jockey did him a whole lot of good in the last one. I think he is still running. I still haven't heard Oracle admit SU is a better horse.

Come on. I hate to get involved and this argument has been beaten to death but the two races are two different scenarios. Kip Deville had ONE chance to steal a race like that and Quincy Hamilton flat out blew it. Three weeks later after the race of his life was a definite bet against. A ten year old could have seen that bounce coming. And of course Showing Up is the better horse, but in IEAH's defense they atleast ran him iinstead of keeping him in his stall like Lael did. As for Scat Daddy I dont think he was overly impressive in here but he's only a two year old! For the most part they are all over the place but he did dig in to get the win. I personally cant get into juvenile racing this early so I'm not knowledgable on the topic enough to really get into this debate. Carry on...

Originally Posted by 1st_Saturday_in_May

Come on. I hate to get involved and this argument has been beaten to death but the two races are two different scenarios. Kip Deville had ONE chance to steal a race like that and Quincy Hamilton flat out blew it. Three weeks later after the race of his life was a definite bet against. A ten year old could have seen that bounce coming. And of course Showing Up is the better horse, but in IEAH's defense they atleast ran him iinstead of keeping him in his stall like Lael did. As for Scat Daddy I dont think he was overly impressive in here but he's only a two year old! For the most part they are all over the place but he did dig in to get the win. I personally cant get into juvenile racing this early so I'm not knowledgable on the topic enough to really get into this debate. Carry on...

First, Kip Deville is just not a horse that wants to be rated. He is Sinister Minister type freak, that just needs to run. If you put him in a BC Mile he would have a shot, as long as they don't rate him.

Second, Lael didn't keep him in his stall. He kept himself in the stall with a minor problem he had, although it wasn't a physical injury. He just had a reaction to a panalog injection.