Times of races

[Gander]

Do you guys really believe that times of races are always accurate?
Do you trust the technology that is being used to time these races?
Spanish Chestnut reportedly worked out in 57 4/5. Couldnt this as easily be 58 4/5 or 59? I mean how much faith do you put in times?

I see fractions of races screwed up constantly. Cant they as easily improperly time a race or a workout?

[SentToStud]

Originally Posted by Gander

Do you guys really believe that times of races are always accurate?
Do you trust the technology that is being used to time these races?
Spanish Chestnut reportedly worked out in 57 4/5. Couldnt this as easily be 58 4/5 or 59? I mean how much faith do you put in times?

I see fractions of races screwed up constantly. Cant they as easily improperly time a race or a workout?

Dirt races, for the most part ... yes

Turf races when the portable rail is used ... nope.

Works.... no.

[Gander]

Works I figured not too many people trust these. What would possess any trainer to publish real workout times to the public? Especially on first timers. They could just as easily report a 5F work that really went in 58 flat as 1:00. What incentive do they have to report the truth?

I'm very skeptical of the technology that is used when I so often see bogus fractions posted and then corrected later. Why cant they get this right?

[2MinsToPost]

Tim I made my living in the Auto Racing Industry as a Timing and Scoring specialist. I have installed electonic AMB Timing Systems at tracks such as Toledo, Memphis Motorsports Park (which currently still uses my original installation, and they run some fairly big races their), Concord Motorsports Park, shoot I could list at least a dozen but I will not bore the Horse Racing fans with that. I was responsible, with the series ASA which was a major stepping stone to NASCAR until its untimely demise, for their live Timing and Scoring which was updated constanly for the viewer at home watching on television. I should get to my point.

I have serious doubts as to the accuracy of the times, always have. Matter of fact, the very first day I was at the track for live racing I asked myself this very question, how can they be that close? You got me thinking that this will be a fun project for me to study and learn more about, how they time these races.

I will 100% promise you one thing, if clockers use like I think they do a handheld watch, no way no how can you take that for a grain of salt the majority of the time. The margain of error in autombile racing using a handheld stopwatch is plus or minus 20-30% the majority of the time, and even the most experienced scorers will tell ya that. Hence, 99% of the major touring series use electronic scoring.

You got me thinking, I gotta look into the way they time the races as they unfold. What part of the horses body is used as the point where they time. What system(s) do they use. Man, you got me excited thinking about this.

[Pointg5]

Remember when BT was going on about "run up distances", that was actually interesting, different tracks use different "run up distances"....

[Gander]

I believe the time of the race is that of which the winning horse's head crosses the finish line. Then its siplayed how many lengths a horse gets beat by the winner. Usually the stnadard rule is 1 second equals 5 lengths.

I bring up this discussion because times are so widely used in handicapping.

Also I saw that Spanish Chestnut worked in 57 and 4 and I have a hard time believing it.

[Danzig]

i believe in europe they time from the actual start of the race, a 'standing' start...while here they begin timing after the break-a running start.

i know they have some kind of gadget in race cars to score laps. wonder if they couldn't put the same type of thing on a horses bridle....

[Pedigree Ann]

I think the electric eyes that trigger the timer are mounted under the running rails. So depending on the track, the horse and the part of his stride he is in, his head or neck or chest will break the beam first. Last spring I think Keeneland experimented with detectors mounted on bridles that registered every horse's time at each pole.

[Pointg5]

Keeneland's going to put a radio signal device in each horses saddle cloth to measure the time...

Originally Posted by 2MinsToPost

Tim I made my living in the Auto Racing Industry as a Timing and Scoring specialist. I have installed electonic AMB Timing Systems at tracks such as Toledo, Memphis Motorsports Park (which currently still uses my original installation, and they run some fairly big races their), Concord Motorsports Park, shoot I could list at least a dozen but I will not bore the Horse Racing fans with that. I was responsible, with the series ASA which was a major stepping stone to NASCAR until its untimely demise, for their live Timing and Scoring which was updated constanly for the viewer at home watching on television. I should get to my point.

I have serious doubts as to the accuracy of the times, always have. Matter of fact, the very first day I was at the track for live racing I asked myself this very question, how can they be that close? You got me thinking that this will be a fun project for me to study and learn more about, how they time these races.

I will 100% promise you one thing, if clockers use like I think they do a handheld watch, no way no how can you take that for a grain of salt the majority of the time. The margain of error in autombile racing using a handheld stopwatch is plus or minus 20-30% the majority of the time, and even the most experienced scorers will tell ya that. Hence, 99% of the major touring series use electronic scoring.

You got me thinking, I gotta look into the way they time the races as they unfold. What part of the horses body is used as the point where they time. What system(s) do they use. Man, you got me excited thinking about this.

Don't get very excited. Experienced clockers can nail the watch within hunderdths of a second when the horse hits the pole he or she is starting the work from. Since teh works are recorded in 5th's, the hundredths dont really matter.

[Gander]

Yes but what percentage of workout times do you think are reported honestly?

Is there some sort of a rule enforcing proper reporting of times? Or is it done on the honor system, like those boxes of candy bars you see lying around?

[2MinsToPost]

it's called a transponder. 2 wires underneath the surface, and when the transponder crosses the point where the wires are, that is the signal.

Originally Posted by Danzig188

i believe in europe they time from the actual start of the race, a 'standing' start...while here they begin timing after the break-a running start.

i know they have some kind of gadget in race cars to score laps. wonder if they couldn't put the same type of thing on a horses bridle....

[ateamstupid]

Originally Posted by Gander

Works I figured not too many people trust these. What would possess any trainer to publish real workout times to the public? Especially on first timers. They could just as easily report a 5F work that really went in 58 flat as 1:00. What incentive do they have to report the truth?

I'm very skeptical of the technology that is used when I so often see bogus fractions posted and then corrected later. Why cant they get this right?

Dude, that's why the DRF has its own clockers. Not saying that there's absolutely no funny business going on, but it's not as if trainers go and tell the trainers the times and that's how it gets published. The DRF employs guys to clock them theirselves.

Originally Posted by Pedigree Ann

I think the electric eyes that trigger the timer are mounted under the running rails. So depending on the track, the horse and the part of his stride he is in, his head or neck or chest will break the beam first. Last spring I think Keeneland experimented with detectors mounted on bridles that registered every horse's time at each pole.

Totally wrong as usual.

The electric timer is specifically NOT mounted on the rail ... because horses bang into the rail all the time ... and that would trigger a false reading. The timers are on separate mounts which are sunk into concrete for stability.

Another useless post from a ditsy dame.

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by Bold Brooklynite

Totally wrong as usual.

The electric timer is specifically NOT mounted on the rail ... because horses bang into the rail all the time ... and that would trigger a false reading. The timers are on separate mounts which are sunk into concrete for stability.

Another useless post from a ditsy dame.

kind of like your congo post?

Name calling...tsk, tsk.

Are you saying that no track in america has a rail mounted electric timer? Now, do your research before you answer so that you arent made to look the fool again.

[Gander]

Like Dude, I forgot that drf hires their own clockers. Totally?

Originally Posted by Gander

Like Dude, I forgot that drf hires their own clockers. Totally?

Valley girls...

will find out today just how fast spanish rabbit is.

i believe the 57 and change, he is racing 6f in 108.

Originally Posted by Gander

Yes but what percentage of workout times do you think are reported honestly?

Is there some sort of a rule enforcing proper reporting of times? Or is it done on the honor system, like those boxes of candy bars you see lying around?

Tim on stakes horses the times are almost always reported correctly. The chicanery of incorrect workout times is 95% with first time starters or 2nd time starter maidens. Its a game thats been played since the 1800's. AFter they win and people know what they are they put the works down because they know there is no price there.
Its why my friend is so valuable with maidens.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Bold Brooklynite

Totally wrong as usual.

The electric timer is specifically NOT mounted on the rail ... because horses bang into the rail all the time ... and that would trigger a false reading. The timers are on separate mounts which are sunk into concrete for stability.

Another useless post from a ditsy dame.

nothin' in the world like holding a grudge....

[ateamstupid]

Originally Posted by Gander

Like Dude, I forgot that drf hires their own clockers. Totally?

LOL, someone sounds tight.