Jockey Head Butt's Horse

Bigsmc · #1 07-24-2006, 04:54 PM

My apologies if this has already been on another thread.

http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/hor...ory?id=2528450

Danzig · #2 07-24-2006, 04:58 PM

he got bent out of shape because he got thrown??? mmmm...maybe he's in the wrong line of work.

Scurlogue Champ · #3 07-24-2006, 05:00 PM

He was probably just trying to tell the horse to calm his rear end down and that he wasn't going to put up with the attitude...

Seeing eye to eye, per se.

#4 07-24-2006, 05:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by moodwalker

He was probably just trying to tell the horse to calm his rear end down and that he wasn't going to put up with the attitude...

Seeing eye to eye, per se.

hes a soccer, opps, football fan . LOL...

Bigsmc · #5 07-24-2006, 05:02 PM

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/othe...ng/5210036.stm

Of course, now that I posted it, I can't get the video to work.

Click on the link below and you'll see a yellow video tab in the lower middle of the page. Click on it and watch this clown.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/othe...ng/default.stm

whorstman · #6 07-24-2006, 06:33 PM

Just looks like he was trying to show the horse who's boss. Not like he beat the crap out of him or anything. I would have liked to see the horse turn around and kick the sh1t out of him, lol.

sumitas · #7 07-24-2006, 06:45 PM

Friggin tough guy shoud get suspended for that and lose his % for that race. Then he takes out more of his psychosis by whipping the horse excessively in the stretch. I thought these guys were supposed to be professional ?

Scurlogue Champ · #8 07-24-2006, 08:16 PM

He is a pretty good jock, I wouldn't worry about the horse. It will be fine.

I would let that little guy headbutt me right now, it probably didn't hurt too much.

Trainer and owner don't seem to mind. And I wouldn't count on this being the first or last time any of this stuff happens even today.

People raise hell with horses on a daily basis. Not to say this is right, but it does happen.

You think all those guys that hotwalk on the backside are gentle animal lovers that want to gently "teach" the horse his lessons.

Those bastards beat the hell out of those things....especially two-year-olds.

Scurlogue Champ · #9 07-24-2006, 08:24 PM

The jump jockeys hit the horse harder on their necks after a big win at Cheltenham or Aintree than he did with his helmet.

GPK · #10 07-25-2006, 02:07 AM

what an absolute a$$hole....they need to hold that jockey and let that horse turn around and kick him in the nuts. ZERO respect for a guy like that.

#11 07-25-2006, 09:14 AM

here's johnny.......

#12 07-25-2006, 09:27 AM

he lost his temper a bit.. but as was stated... the horse wasn't hurt... Horses will jump in the air hit their heads on the doorway and not be affected even though they are cut and bleeding... Have I hit a horse... absolutely!!! Just like my kids (they laugh about how ineffective I was at doing that!) I use the body scraper to make my point with a knuckle headed horse... they feel a sting at most... you need to keep their attention some times ... they do weigh 1,000 lbs or more!

He should not have done it.. especially in the eye of the public

irishtrekker · #13 07-25-2006, 09:47 AM

I'm really torn on this one. You don't want to advocate abusing animals, but, as a few people have stated, sometimes the only way to remind a horse that it can't be dominant is to act like another horse.

I was leading a 2 year-old Appy mare back from the pasture once. She was the snottiest horse I'd ever met -- no training whatsoever before my friend bought her. Getting her to come in from the pasture was almost impossible (I resorted to a version of the Horse Whisperer and chased her around the whole g-d thing whirling her halter rope above my head like a propellor until she actually did what they do on tv: stopped and gave up). Anyway, on the way back, with no apparent provocation, she bit me on the bicep. It hurt like hell, but it was also dangerous: we could not have therapy horses thinking they could nip people when they felt like it. Without thinking, I whirled around and slapped her fairly hard on the neck. She started a little, but then she immediately dropped her head and "got in line." She never bit me again.

Horses have incredibly thick hides. There's a huge difference between an open-handed slap and a punch, or between a crop on the haunches and a crop on the face. Physical punishment can cross the line and should always be used as an absolute last resort, but there are times when you have to nip a dangerous behavior in the bud before someone (horse or person) gets hurt. If you know how to do it, a well-timed smack can be a reminder to behave: it doesn't hurt, but it startles them and reminds them to cool down a little. They're huge. They can kill you. I spent two hours in Havana once working on getting an abused horse to trust me enough to touch him, so I'm the last person to advocate wantonly using physical force on an animal. But sometimes, you have to act like a horse...and anyone who's seen a bunch of mares in a pasture knows how that works.

#14 07-25-2006, 09:51 AM

i hear what your saying here, but apparently he is being disciplined by the stwards for extensive whip use down the lane.
this is cruelty and he should be suspended and he will.

irishtrekker · #15 07-25-2006, 09:53 AM

Fair enough. I've seen some nasty crop marks on horses whose riders were a little too whip-happy.

Scurlogue Champ · #16 07-25-2006, 12:02 PM

The only real issue here is that he got caught on camera....

Pedigree Ann · #17 07-25-2006, 06:52 PM

I saw the video and it looked like a glancing blow at best. Ever see a jockey whacking the side of a horse's neck with his open hand after a race? THis blow appears to be in the same impact category. Remember the old joke about the mule, who would do whatever you wanted with the gentlest request, but first you had to hit it over the head with a 2 by 4 to get its attention? Not too far off the mark, sometimes.

I have my own story about 'getting his attention.' I was in a riding class and was getting a lot of resistence to a canter aids from this big old grey hunter-type. With the instructor's permission, I reached back and gave him the hardest whack I could with the crop on his rump. He literally picked up his head - 'Oh, you actually DO want me to canter?' Things went a bit more smoothly thereafter, no need for any other reminders.

Danzig · #18 07-25-2006, 07:08 PM

i don't think anyone is suggesting that discipline is unnecessary...but a head butt? seems kind of silly... and then he whips the hell out of the horse down the lane. i think he crossed the line. everyone who has ever ridden knows it's only a matter of time before you get unseated. but i don't think you're supposed to take it personally. i sure didn't when i rode that mare who enjoyed trying to find low hanging limbs!! lol

Downthestretch55 · #19 07-25-2006, 08:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danzig188

i don't think anyone is suggesting that discipline is unnecessary...but a head butt? seems kind of silly... and then he whips the hell out of the horse down the lane. i think he crossed the line. everyone who has ever ridden knows it's only a matter of time before you get unseated. but i don't think you're supposed to take it personally. i sure didn't when i rode that mare who enjoyed trying to find low hanging limbs!! lol

Looked pretty mild to me. He got off safely and held the reins.
Then, he and the horse came to an "understanding".
Honestly, I've seen much worse.
Just my two pennies worth...
Watch out for tree limbs. The trunks they try to scrape you off on also are a bit dangerous.

kentuckyrosesinmay · #20 07-25-2006, 08:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Downthestretch55

Looked pretty mild to me. He got off safely and held the reins.
Then, he and the horse came to an "understanding".
Honestly, I've seen much worse.
Just my two pennies worth...
Watch out for tree limbs. The trunks they try to scrape you off on also are a bit dangerous.

I agree with you. I've seen much worse too. People discipline their horses all the time. Sometimes you have to. They are big, strong animals who can hurt themselves and you very easily. The general public doesn't understand this.

I do think the head butt was silly to watch visually, but it was a good way to discipline the horse without actually hitting him with his fist. Most of the time, you have to hit a horse as hard as you can to actually make it sting, and it ends up hurting you more than it hurts the horse. It takes a lot to hurt them. Some horses need more discipline than others, and I see absolutely nothing wrong with the head butt. He hit the horse on one of his most sensitive areas (the muzzle) one time, and the message got through. I'm sure the horse associated his head butt with him bucking the rider off since he was disciplined immediately after he did so.

The problem I have is with the excessive whipping down the lane. If he was excessively whipping the horse, it was completely uncalled for, abuse, and bad training. The horse would not have associated his bucking the rider off with the excessive whipping during a race. If this is the case, then the jockey clearly took his frustrations out on the horse, and, therefore, should be punished.

With that being said, I usually don't discipline my horses by hitting them for bucking unless they are just being flat out mean and hateful. Most of the time, I yell at them a couple of times if they get into a playful mode, and yelling usually does the trick. If they get to jumping around really bad, I will just jump off of them, and then put them on a lunge line until they settle down. This horse was obviously feeling good, and was being playful not mean.

In this particular instance, I probably would have just jumped off of the horse and led him or had someone else come in and lead him. It sounds as if the horse had been acting up in the entire post parade. The horse did seem to quit goofing off after he head butted him though. What I can't believe is that the jockey fell off of him at such a little buck/spook?! I don't even know if you could have called that a buck. I think the jockey actually more of jumped off of him at that point to discipline him.

Danzig was right, you aren't supposed to take what horses do personally. If I took it personally every time one of the young horses at my barn did something, I wouldn't be riding. I would have quit a very, very long time ago. My trainer was holding my young filly this weekend at a horse show. While I was walking behind her switching saddle pads (the saddle pad had been itching her horribly), she kicked at me, and my trainer immediately hit her on the nose to discipline her. She didn't do it again, and was a lot calmer since I switched the saddle pad. We went in and won the next class like nothing had ever happened.