Pino's quote

[ninetoone]

"Believe me, I didn’t think he was going that fast."

I like Hard Spun, but I don't like that quote. I could live with it if the work was 59 or so, but 57? What does that say about his internal clock? Shouldn't the average jockey know when he just worked a horse in 57 & change?

Pino is the only thing that worries me about Hard Spun.

[Scurlogue Champ]

Pino is going to panic and send this ****er early.....

I wish they had a bet on that

[SniperSB23]

Originally Posted by ninetoone

"Believe me, I didn’t think he was going that fast."

I like Hard Spun, but I don't like that quote. I could live with it if the work was 59 or so, but 57? What does that say about his internal clock? Shouldn't the average jockey know when he just worked a horse in 57 & change?

Pino is the only thing that worries me about Hard Spun.

Going out in 33 just seems crazy to me. I don't see how they can expect the horse to run 36 or slower in a 20 horse stampede when he just went 33 on his own.

[Cajungator26]

Originally Posted by moodwalker

Pino is going to panic and send this ****er early.....

I wish they had a bet on that

LOL

Oh wait...

lol lol lol

[Scurlogue Champ]

Originally Posted by SniperSB23

Going out in 33 just seems crazy to me. I don't see how they can expect the horse to run 36 or slower in a 20 horse stampede when he just went 33 on his own.

They don't expect him to run 36 or slower early.

I applaud Jones for getting him ready for what he is about to do. He is going to be pumping around there and will still have the lead when they come around the turn.

Then it will get interesting.

[SniperSB23]

Originally Posted by moodwalker

They don't expect him to run 36 or slower early.

I applaud Jones for getting him ready for what he is about to do. He is going to be pumping around there and will still have the lead when they come around the turn.

Then it will get interesting.

If that is the case then he's toast but at least the work makes sense.

[slotdirt]

I'm not following, what is Jones trying to do?

[Scurlogue Champ]

Originally Posted by slotdirt

I'm not following, what is Jones trying to do?

I think he is getting him ready for some PRESSURE by putting some speed into him before he sends him on the run of his life.

I could be wrong though. Feel free to add your opinion. I am just speculating on how it will pan out.

[Scurlogue Champ]

It is easy for me to sit back and say I would take Cowtown Cat, Hard Spun, Teuflesburg, etc... off the pace and let them make the overused "one good run."

But this guy Jones has never been to a Derby. He was just at Ellis Park last year. Trained for 25 years and hasn't even been close.

This is his shot man. Pino the same. If he currently is thinking that they will lay off the pace and let the race shape up, I think by Friday night he will change his tune.

I know one thing. If I were him, I would want to see that ****er out front and unhampered by the 19 other runners. If he really has that one horse, would he want him crowded in with 10 others at the turn?

He will send and lead at the turn, possibly the 1/8th pole.

I think this happens a lot in the Derby.

"By god, I've got one shot and I'll be damned if I want to watch the ****er never placed better than eighth. Just give him a shot to win. Put him out front."

[MisterB]

What happened to the old statement about trying to rate him at Oaklawn? Now it's just a toss?? Like I said after the Oaklawn trip, Did Pino loose that race?, o no, he did what the trainer said to do, try to rate him. Boy how things change in a hurry, and how they toss the old excuses.

[ninetoone]

Just to clarify, I don't have a big problem with the time of the work, just the fact that Pino apparently didn't know how fast he was going.

I would think that after that many rides, you would be able to work a horse for 5 furlongs & be able to come back & say, "that was a 57" or something like that. Maybe I'm in a dream world, but this is a long race & I want my jockey to know when the pace is a 57, or a 1:09, etc, etc...and respond appropriately.

[hockey2315]

I think he meant what he said in the sense that it didn't feel like HS was working that hard. . .

[ninetoone]

Originally Posted by hockey2315

I think he meant what he said in the sense that it didn't feel like HS was working that hard. . .

Yeah, that could be...but I sure don't like the way it came out. Hopefully you're right.

[the_fat_man]

Originally Posted by ninetoone

Just to clarify, I don't have a big problem with the time of the work, just the fact that Pino apparently didn't know how fast he was going.

I would think that after that many rides, you would be able to work a horse for 5 furlongs & be able to come back & say, "that was a 57" or something like that. Maybe I'm in a dream world, but this is a long race & I want my jockey to know when the pace is a 57, or a 1:09, etc, etc...and respond appropriately.

Assume that a particular jock is accustomed to getting on a particular horse and he becomes familiar with the horses stride is relation to effort put forth.

Now, what if, on a particular day, the horse is putting forth the same effort YET going faster? (It feel better; it likes the track; etc.)

There are 2 factors in play here:

1) the speed they're actually travelling -- and here the jock should be able to distinguish between faster and slower speed

2) the speed in relation to the effort --- not so easy a task as one could undertand how a jock would conflate speed with effort.

But, you're probably correct, PINO is incompetent.

You can easily prove this by getting out there on a track or road bike, WITHOUT a speedometer, and readily predict your speed on any given day.

You could, in a perfect world.

[ninetoone]

I'm not saying he's incompetent, I was just surprised by the quote. Maybe it just didn't come out right. I wish he would have just said, "it was a great work" and leave it at that. Now I'm questioning his internal clock a little bit. There's no doubt that some jockeys clocks are better than others. I always thought Gary Stevens was one of the best.

[philcski]

Dude, the guy's won f*cking 6000 races in his career, he knows what he's doing, and just because Larry Jones doesn't have the clients that (0-20 in the Derby) Todd Pletcher does, doesn't mean he doesn't know what he's doing.

I heard the same arguments about Smarty Jones' connections in 2004, and Barbaro's trainer last year, and some even questioned Laurin's handling of Secretariat.

If the horse is good enough, he'll win. If he isn't, he won't.

[The Bid]

Thats what all pinheads say when they work one too fast. I didnt know he was going that fast, he did it easy. Usually followed by a flop, what a moron

[ninetoone]

I didn't say he didn't know what he was doing. Read the post. I said that I was surprised that he didn't know how fast he was going. That's it.

[ninetoone]

Originally Posted by philcski

If the horse is good enough, he'll win. If he isn't, he won't.

Yeah, it's not quite that simple, i'm afraid...especially in the Derby.

[Scurlogue Champ]

Originally Posted by philcski

Dude, the guy's won f*cking 6000 races in his career, he knows what he's doing, and just because Larry Jones doesn't have the clients that (0-20 in the Derby) Todd Pletcher does, doesn't mean he doesn't know what he's doing.

I heard the same arguments about Smarty Jones' connections in 2004, and Barbaro's trainer last year, and some even questioned Laurin's handling of Secretariat.

If the horse is good enough, he'll win. If he isn't, he won't.

I think there's a difference between knowing what you are doing at Delaware Park on a Tuesday and on the first Saturday in May after you have given about 200 interviews and brought all your friends and family there with every last one of them believing you will win.

If Hard Spun does exactly what I think he will do, Jones and Pino won't be the first to succumb to it or the last. Hard Spun is no Smarty Jones.

I think Elliot could have ridden him backwards and that horse would have done the exact thing he did.

Without a doubt, I would send him to the front and pray. You think Jones and Pino are just sitting there saying, "man, we got this. we know exactly what we are doing?"

The Derby is a powerful animal...and it has made more than a few trainers and jockeys do things differently than they normally would.