Question about Pace

[fjh513]

Basic question for most of you but to a rookie a different story....

On TVG,one of the announcers(Stevens?) mentioned that the Bluegrass Stakes had no pace,and therefore hurt the closers. Please explain this for me. My initial thought is that it(no pace) would help the closers because they would have more in reserve to finish.
I could also use some help understanding the difference between pace and speed..this is a tough game to learn,but I love it and know it takes time. I'm reading the books suggested by some of the members,but I'm kinda' lost on this pace /speed thing. I'm amazed at the expertise in the selections thread and I'm trying to follow and learn...hopefully to contribute soon.

[hoovesupsideyourhead]

pace advantage board..hoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo..some one here will give you a perfect explanation..

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by fjh513

Basic question for most of you but to a rookie a different story....

On TVG,one of the announcers(Stevens?) mentioned that the Bluegrass Stakes had no pace,and therefore hurt the closers. Please explain this for me. My initial thought is that it(no pace) would help the closers because they would have more in reserve to finish.
I could also use some help understanding the difference between pace and speed..this is a tough game to learn,but I love it and know it takes time. I'm reading the books suggested by some of the members,but I'm kinda' lost on this pace /speed thing. I'm amazed at the expertise in the selections thread and I'm trying to follow and learn...hopefully to contribute soon.

if the pace setter is allowed to jog on the front end, he'll have plenty left late to fend off challengers--or should! if anyone has a future bet on teuflesberg in the derby, it'll at least make good firestarter material.

[fjh513]

"pace advantage board..hoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo..some one here will give you a perfect explanation"

There are other horse racing message boards ??????????????????

[Samarta]

Now I'm probably not going to provide an explanation at the level that a lot of people on here will, but here are my thoughts.

When there is no upfront pace as was the case in the Bluegrass today, all the horses are sitting on a full tank at the turn for home. End result was a lot of bumping and a 5 horse photo. When a horse is a good closer it can cruise along just off the lead or even way back and still have plenty left in reserve, so when they hit the top of the stretch, they have everything left where as the earlier leaders have used up all their energy. Good closing speed is what makes the difference in longer races.

As far as pace vs speed and here I'm reaching for a definition, but pace as I know it is cruising speed. If a horse can go 22/23 quarters and 46/47 halves with little effort they have good pace. It's the horse that goes 23/24 and 47/48 but can create their position when a jockey asks them for more, it literally looks like they pushed a button and the horse took off. One place where this is a prime example is the '04 Derby going up the backside into the turn, Mike Smith on Lion Heart tried to steal the race going into the turn and if you watched the replay, it is focused in on Lion Heart and Smarty Jones and Lion Heart gets about a 3 length lead and all of a sudden it looks like Smarty was shot out of a cannon and next thing you know they are even. That is what I would consider an example of speed. When a horse can simply turn it on when asked.

Like I said, not technical definitions, but hope it helps.

[fjh513]

Samarta

Thanks for the help....very well put in plain English. I'll find that 04' Derby replay ( Smarty is largely responsible for my interest in horse racing)and look for his button being pushed. I'm guessing Afleet Alex had the quality ?

[Samarta]

Originally Posted by fjh513

Samarta

Thanks for the help....very well put in plain English. I'll find that 04' Derby replay ( Smarty is largely responsible for my interest in horse racing)and look for his button being pushed. I'm guessing Afleet Alex had the quality ?

I think some would say and his move in the Belmont would say yes.

[mes5107]

I'm somewhat new to handicapping myself, but I think I can answer you.

When looking at a race, pace and speed are two separate facets. Pace deals with how fast the early to middle portions of the race are run. In a 6 furlong $5000 claimer at Philly Park, a normal 1st quarter mile fraction is run in about 22 3/5 seconds. However, if 6f race for 5k claimers is run today and the first quarter is run in 22 seconds flat, that is a fast pace. You can assume that whoever is running in the front is in over their heads because they are burning up a lot of energy setting such a quick fraction. Conversely, if the 1st quarter is run in 23 2/5, the pace setter should have enough left in the tank to finish in front. Of course, what may look like a fast or slow pace may be affected by the condition of the track.

If you look at a race and see that 2 or 3 (or more) horses like to run on the lead at the distance, there will likely be a battle for the lead, and they will probably tire each other out. A closer, who will have been plodding along behind them, watching it all happen can then pass by these tired horses.

Speed is how fast the full race is run. The pace of the race will affect the final time of the race, so speed is somewhat dependent on pace.

When the announcer on TVG said that the Bluegrass had no pace, he meant that the first fractions were run in a slow time. The horses in the front were cruising along without using up much energy. When they came around the far turn for home, the closers were not able to pass tired horses easily because of this.

[SOREHOOF]

Originally Posted by Samarta

Now I'm probably not going to provide an explanation at the level that a lot of people on here will, but here are my thoughts.

When there is no upfront pace as was the case in the Bluegrass today, all the horses are sitting on a full tank at the turn for home. End result was a lot of bumping and a 5 horse photo. When a horse is a good closer it can cruise along just off the lead or even way back and still have plenty left in reserve, so when they hit the top of the stretch, they have everything left where as the earlier leaders have used up all their energy. Good closing speed is what makes the difference in longer races.

As far as pace vs speed and here I'm reaching for a definition, but pace as I know it is cruising speed. If a horse can go 22/23 quarters and 46/47 halves with little effort they have good pace. It's the horse that goes 23/24 and 47/48 but can create their position when a jockey asks them for more, it literally looks like they pushed a button and the horse took off. One place where this is a prime example is the '04 Derby going up the backside into the turn, Mike Smith on Lion Heart tried to steal the race going into the turn and if you watched the replay, it is focused in on Lion Heart and Smarty Jones and Lion Heart gets about a 3 length lead and all of a sudden it looks like Smarty was shot out of a cannon and next thing you know they are even. That is what I would consider an example of speed. When a horse can simply turn it on when asked.

Like I said, not technical definitions, but hope it helps.

Street Sense should have blown by these. Or Toof should have wired them. Curlin wins the Derby on paper by default!