Adagio claims? - Page 7

phystech · #**121** 03-17-2010, 08:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GBBob

I really, really wanted to avoid getting involved in this thread, but I have to ask you Tom, why not? Indiana has a very solid state-bred program, with good additional bonus structures at the end of each meet. If there is a sound Indiana Bred who can run a 50-60 Beyer, why wouldn't you consider claiming him?

More to the point - why wouldn't you consider a private buy on a horse like that? That way, you avoid 60 days jail at Philly, and you save conditions you can use by not risking them in a race you might claim out of.

So, Scav, why not attempt a private buy if this IN-bred was on your radar?

GBBob · #**122** 03-17-2010, 08:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by phystech

More to the point - why wouldn't you consider a private buy on a horse like that? That way, you avoid 60 days jail at Philly, and you save conditions you can use by not risking them in a race you might claim out of.

So, Scav, why not attempt a private buy if this IN-bred was on your radar?

The private buy is always an option, but the few horses we have claimed generally get 30-60 days to refresh before we run them anyway so the jail wouldn't be a big issue to me. As far as conditions, we would ideally have ( and I can't speak specifically to this horse) all the IN Bred conditions left so it might be worth risking an open condition in that PHA race. All things to consider certainly, but I still don't think it's a ridiculous notion.

Scav · #**123** 03-17-2010, 08:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by phystech

More to the point - why wouldn't you consider a private buy on a horse like that? That way, you avoid 60 days jail at Philly, and you save conditions you can use by not risking them in a race you might claim out of.

So, Scav, why not attempt a private buy if this IN-bred was on your radar?

No offense man, but we weren't worried about claiming conditions with that horse.

phystech · #**124** 03-17-2010, 09:26 AM

Life conditions are your friend so it's something to always be concerned with. I don't know what the IN program entails so I understand why you would mention they aren't important if there's no additional payday for condition races.

Dandy is a Suffolk trainer - or was. He used to come down to MD for the winter meet and then go back when SUF reopened. Don't know if he still does that or not, i.e., winters at Philly and goes back to SUF in May.

And to think - I drive by Grove's barn everytime I go to Bowie to see my horses.... networking is a wonderful thing.....

Scav · #**125** 03-17-2010, 09:49 AM

Race: 9 Changes Time Posted
#4 Adagio (GB) Scratched - Trainer 10:45 AM ET

randallscott35 · #**126** 03-17-2010, 10:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scav

Race: 9 Changes Time Posted
#4 Adagio (GB) Scratched - Trainer 10:45 AM ET

All this thread for nothing.

GBBob · #**127** 03-17-2010, 10:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by randallscott35

All this thread for nothing.

This thread was..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j0qm0KUPeD8

MISTERGEE · #**128** 03-17-2010, 10:17 AM

or maybe this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hjDnGBrhhaQ

GBBob · #**129** 03-17-2010, 10:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MISTERGEE

or maybe this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hjDnGBrhhaQ

yup..or that

Cannon Shell · #**130** 03-17-2010, 10:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by phystech

Life conditions are your friend so it's something to always be concerned with. I don't know what the IN program entails so I understand why you would mention they aren't important if there's no additional payday for condition races.

Dandy is a Suffolk trainer - or was. He used to come down to MD for the winter meet and then go back when SUF reopened. Don't know if he still does that or not, i.e., winters at Philly and goes back to SUF in May.

And to think - I drive by Grove's barn everytime I go to Bowie to see my horses.... networking is a wonderful thing.....

He would be an allowance horse in IN not a conditioned claimer. IN breds are generally terrible horses. Appoint won an INbred allowance race and was stakes placed. Her lifetime top beyer is a 50.

Scav · #**131** 03-17-2010, 10:23 AM

More importantly, jail time in PA is 30 days, such an astute mid atlantic claim guy should know this.

http://www.pacode.com/secure/data/05.../s163.254.html

Which, amazingly, lines up with the Indiana Downs meet, which amazingly has 29k allowance races won by 35 Beyers, which amazingly get another 20% owners bonus up to 10k.

Duvalier · #**132** 03-17-2010, 10:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scav

Mort importantly, jail time in PA is 30 days, such an astute mid atlantic claim guy should know this.

http://www.pacode.com/secure/data/05.../s163.254.html

Which, amazingly, lines up with the Indiana Downs meet, which amazingly has 29k allowance races won by 35 Beyers, which amazingly get another 20% owners bonus up to 10k.

I'm pretty sure the jail time you are referring to is just for the claiming price you can run him for. As far as running the horse somewhere else...that's more than 30 days of jail time I believe.

Scav · #**133** 03-17-2010, 10:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Duvalier

I'm pretty sure the jail time you are referring to is just for the claiming price you can run him for. As far as running the horse somewhere else...that's more than 30 days of jail time I believe.

http://www.pacode.com/secure/data/05...hap163toc.html

Here are the rules, there is no state requirement that I can find, besides 163.255 but that is in regards to selling or transfering a claimed horse.

I think if you do the claim, you wait the 30 days and then you can do what you want with the horse.

Duvalier · #**134** 03-17-2010, 11:04 AM

I'm pretty sure it is 60 days before you can run him out of town

Scav · #**135** 03-17-2010, 11:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Duvalier

I'm pretty sure it is 60 days before you can run him out of town

Ok, show me where it says that. Those are the commission rules and a specific rule such as that will be there somewhere, and it would be in the claiming section. I'll look through it more tonight, including checking when it was last updated.

But to add some some kind reasoning to this, within the Gill PA claiming era, he would claim horses in PA and run them at Laurel or Charlestown or Delaware, he definitely wouldn't have made money or probably do that if he had to wait 60 days.

scanman · #**136** 03-17-2010, 12:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scav

Ok, show me where it says that. Those are the commission rules and a specific rule such as that will be there somewhere, and it would be in the claiming section. I'll look through it more tonight, including checking when it was last updated.

But to add some some kind reasoning to this, within the Gill PA claiming era, he would claim horses in PA and run them at Laurel or Charlestown or Delaware, he definitely wouldn't have made money or probably do that if he had to wait 60 days.

Scav,

That's the key, when was this document last updated. It still has references to Commordore Downs (closed in 1970's, replaced by Erie Downs - closed in the late '80's and replaced by Presque Isle Downs) and Keystone Race Track (now Philadelphia Park).

FWIW, we claimed a horse last summer at Philadelphia Park with the intent to run at Penn National. Our trainer mentioned that he would be in jail for 60 days, which wasn't a big deal because we planned to give him some time off anyway.

Best,
Scanman

Scav · #**137** 03-17-2010, 12:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scanman

Scav,

That's the key, when was this document last updated. It still has references to Commordore Downs (closed in 1970's, replaced by Erie Downs - closed in the late '80's and replaced by Presque Isle Downs) and Keystone Race Track (now Philadelphia Park).

FWIW, we claimed a horse last summer at Philadelphia Park with the intent to run at Penn National. Our trainer mentioned that he would be in jail for 60 days, which wasn't a big deal because we planned to give him some time off anyway.

Best,
Scanman

Alright, I apologize then. I am pretty surprised with how anal the PA racing commission is with things that this would stay up like that.

You guys are all correct in that it is 60 days in PA. My apologies for the aggressiveness

hoovesupsideyourhead · #**138** 03-17-2010, 06:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by freddymo

Tom let it go it all ends bad..

hmmm

Scav · #**139** 03-17-2010, 08:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hoovesupsideyourhead

hmmm

Yeah, should have listened to Freddy. Made an ass out of myself on the PHA thing, because that was personal when it started talking about the IN bred.

All things considered, it shouldn't have gotten to where it went because I should just know better that people are going voice their opinions how they do and that is that. If you go back to my original post, I shouldn't have used the word guarantee but all I was saying was that they would have claimed Adagio because of the 16k starters at Arlington, which all the guys I have mentioned have made that move before (Claim at Gulfstream to run at Arlington). Then it went into me supposedly mentioning all the mid-atlantic guys and not knowing them.

I think we both were narrow minded with our opinion in that BTW focused on the mid-atlantic and I focused on the Arlington people, where Gulfstream is a unique opportunity where operations from multiple circuits get the opportunity to race against each other. I will still argue that the people I was talking about didn't have the same opportunity to claim him when he was in for 25k out east because it is a completely different situation for the guys I spoke about when they are on-site.

Dutrow's other horse got claimed today by Mark Thomas, not someone I have ever heard of, and while the horses were different, it will be interesting to see how many claims were in on him (It looks like Gulfstream updates their claim log regularly)

Finally, I took offense and took the wrong way in regards to his comments about who I have or am banging, and I regret responding the way I did because that isn't how I roll. For that, I am sorry.

DerbyCat · #**140** 03-17-2010, 09:46 PM

Scav, you're a bigger man then several on here. Some folks like to push buttons and point out the mistakes of others for a variety of reasons, mostly (I think) because it makes them feel better about themselves when they can belittle others. It takes a strong man to admit they made a mistake and apologize... Hopefully you get apologies in return.

This was an interesting and educational thread... For a variety of reasons.