India shippers??????

[TheSpyder]

Offensive, no way. I'll take it with a bake potato...or is it potatoe...let me call the ex-VP.

As for all the hoopla, let's all get together and sing kumbaya and listen to my Chris Rock CD. That'll either get us together or we'll kill each other. Let's settle this.

BTW...that's a joke..OK???

PS: Thanks Chuck...you are the man

[NoChanceToDance]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Of course the travel is a concern but finishing second to Mystical last year does not make him a good horse. As for his paddock presence, how do we know that he is doesn't look like that all the time? My probem with you is that you make these kind of statements like you have some kind of info that the rest of us don't have. Your condescending tone too often does not make you a favorite either. You have repeatedly expressed your disdain with how the syntheic tracks are cared for over here though there are many different types in all maners of different climates. The fact that you have no more idea than anyone else here about how they are being cared for never deters you. The fact that Darley is becoming the stallion power in the US seems to bother you as you always knock them even though all evidence is that they are on the right track. Your taking offense to Spyders attempt at a little humor also comes off as a typical response. If you dont like what I'm saying then simply ignore me. Or keep responding. I don't care either way.

Take a chill pill fella (and some deep breaths).

Finishing second to Mystical also doesn't make him a claimer though. His form behind Mystical does make him an above average performer when you look at what that horse did in Dubai. Neither of us can be sure how good he may or may not be in America due to many different 'grey' areas, but on the form he has shown back in his native country you cannot call him a claimer after just one run where there are many factors seemingly against him.

Do i wish to be a favourite here? It doesn't bother me, i speak my mind...... i'm not just going to agree with what everyone says if in my mind i don't agree. That would just become boring.

The synthetic tracks. Well, from speaking to different "regulars" at some of the new polytrack locations in the States, i have a pretty good idea of how they are cared for, or not cared for as the case maybe. Apart from maybe CA, the climate has nothing to do with it. We have raced successfully on Poly when we reached our highest ever Temp over here (almost 100F) and there were no problems as far as i can remember. I know many of the groundstaff at both Wolverhampton and Lingfield (our two polytack surfaced tracks here) and i have a good idea of what they do to prepare the surface before and during each race meeting in different weather conditions, and from what i have been seeing on TV and hearing from people at the track, many of these tracks in America are failing to put the hard work needed into the track preparation.

I quite think Martin Collins should carry most of the blame on his shoulders. I quite think he has approached these tracks and sold this surface as a "almost maintenance free" synthetic track...... which in reality is far from correct.

I'm sorry that you have a "problem" with me, i suppose that is just something i will have to take on the chin.

[miraja2]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

You too my friend are a little too sensitive. The picture is NOT racist in any manner. If you want to take offense, then take it. Just because a picture depicts a person of a different race than you, it is not necesarily racist. The "racist mentality" that you too seem to have is when racism is used as a substitute for poor taste. There is a huge difference. Spyder is a nice guy who attempted a little humor. You guys are the ones who turned it into an issue.

There is a Bud light commercial that plays excessively of a guy teaching a class of decidedly non-americans to speak English. There are the typical sterotypes and funny (foreign sounding) pronounciations. That is called humor. Or maybe Budweiser is a racist company too. Maybe it is not your type but it also is not racist. Is Rush Hour 3 a racist movie because Chris Tucker makes Chinese jokes and pokes fun at the way Jackie Chan talks? Maybe I am the politically incorrect one but maybe you should lighten up and stop making the world such a miserable place with all your correctness.

Chuck,
I have a lot of respect for you as a trainer and as a member of this board. I agree with a whole lot of what you say on here. On this issue however, I just think you are wrong. Do I think that Carlos Mencia (the guy from the Budweiser commercials) is an idiot that promotes negative racial stereotypes. As a matter of fact, yes I do. Do I think Budweiser is wrong for using him in those ads? Yes I do. Perhaps white people think the world is a "miserable place" because of all the political correctness. Something tells me that most of the rest of the world would argue that racism has done a bit more to add misery to the world than political correctness. Even though I too am "white," I think I'll side with "them" on this one.
However, I honestly don't see any way that I am going to convince you that I am right here, and frankly I don't think a horse racing message board is even a very good place to get into this type of subject.
I guess it is "agree to disagree" on this subject.

[dellinger63]

The negative stereotypes were out in force dressed everyway from a cast member in alli bahba to a Patel mobster wanna be. And they bet this crap down to 3/5 opening. All left with one thing in common.... All had their ethnically customized Trojan's with them.... LOL don't let the door hit your a $$es on the way out.......

[GBBob]

Originally Posted by dellinger63

The negative stereotypes were out in force dressed everyway from a cast member in alli bahba to a Patel mobster wanna be. And they bet this crap down to 3/5 opening. All left with one thing in common.... All had their ethnically customized Trojan's with them.... LOL don't let the door hit your a $$es on the way out.......

Steve...I wanted to bicker with you about this, but Marzak wouldn't shut up today. It's the classic "shoot the messenger"....except the messenger happens to be an India connection. This horse ain't crap....it went through hell to get here and wasn't meant to be.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Pillow Pants

Now that is offensive.

i'll take one of those, medium rare, with a salad please.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by miraja2

Chuck,
I have a lot of respect for you as a trainer and as a member of this board. I agree with a whole lot of what you say on here. On this issue however, I just think you are wrong. Do I think that Carlos Mencia (the guy from the Budweiser commercials) is an idiot that promotes negative racial stereotypes. As a matter of fact, yes I do. Do I think Budweiser is wrong for using him in those ads? Yes I do. Perhaps white people think the world is a "miserable place" because of all the political correctness. Something tells me that most of the rest of the world would argue that racism has done a bit more to add misery to the world than political correctness. Even though I too am "white," I think I'll side with "them" on this one.
However, I honestly don't see any way that I am going to convince you that I am right here, and frankly I don't think a horse racing message board is even a very good place to get into this type of subject.
I guess it is "agree to disagree" on this subject.

Dude all I am saying is that you guys jumped on a guy for posting a stupid picture. In calling it racist you actually are part of the problem of blurring the line between actual racism and psuedo-racism. I am well aware of the evils of racism but the tendency to see things that may be in poor taste as racist just fuels the flames.

[dellinger63]

Originally Posted by GBBob

Steve...I wanted to bicker with you about this, but Marzak wouldn't shut up today. It's the classic "shoot the messenger"....except the messenger happens to be an India connection. This horse ain't crap....it went through hell to get here and wasn't meant to be.

Let's hope he travels home safely? This trainer who was here from Million Day till this 45K race where he finished last; he's a good one? They may have lapped him in the million.

[GBBob]

Originally Posted by dellinger63

Let's hope he travels home safely? This trainer who was here from Million Day till this 45K race where he finished last; he's a good one? They may have lapped him in the million.

Perhaps the connections should have kept their yaps shut about the Million....especially in the Chicago Tribune today. Obviously didn't belong in that. What if the "betting public" hadn't sent him off at whatever short price he was at? Would he have been more respected at 6-1?
There just seemed to be a lot of animosity at a horse/trainer/owner just trying to do something different.

[trifecta124]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Dude all I am saying is that you guys jumped on a guy for posting a stupid picture. In calling it racist you actually are part of the problem of blurring the line between actual racism and psuedo-racism. I am well aware of the evils of racism but the tendency to see things that may be in poor taste as racist just fuels the flames.

I agree.....Racism is acting upon a prejudice that one may have. If I post a funny picture of a drunk Irish guy, or a picture of an Italian wearing a wife beater, or a picture of an Indian working in a 7-11 it would be funny. However, If I were in a position of power & decided not to hire someone based on their race, gender or religious beliefs....that would be racism.

[SuffolkGirl]

What did Gandhi say to the hotdog vendor?




Make me one with everything..........



Everyone relax, happy Labor day, have a hotdog with everything on it.

[Left Bank]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Dude all I am saying is that you guys jumped on a guy for posting a stupid picture. In calling it racist you actually are part of the problem of blurring the line between actual racism and psuedo-racism. I am well aware of the evils of racism but the tendency to see things that may be in poor taste as racist just fuels the flames.

Another well written statement!!! Get 'em Chuck!!

[miraja2]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Dude all I am saying is that you guys jumped on a guy for posting a stupid picture. In calling it racist you actually are part of the problem of blurring the line between actual racism and psuedo-racism. I am well aware of the evils of racism but the tendency to see things that may be in poor taste as racist just fuels the flames.

Needless to say, I completely disagree with you here. Racism comes in all shapes and sizes. The Klan engages in one form of racist activity. People who use a person's race to influence a decision about who gets a promotion engages in another. One of the biggest misconceptions, however, that a lot of people seem to have, is that these obvious acts are all that falls under the category of racism. This is not the case. The world is not neatly divided between "racists" and angels. A lot of racism is born of ignorance rather than malicious intent. Things like caricatures can - and have - strenthened negative racial stereotypes for centuries. When something that is in "poor taste" is also racially insensitive, I firmly believe that the person responsible for it should be called on it. TheSpyder was called on it, and he handled himself appropriately.
Is making an offensive post on a horse racing message board the same as more blatant forms of racism? Of course not. Can such images and comments strengthen negative stereotypes? Yes. That is racism. Pure and simple. For what it is worth I can tell you that the vast majority of the academic community would almost unanimously call the post in question a "racist post." Now does that mean we are absolutely right? No, and I suspect that there will be a lot of anti-academic types here who will suggest that we are wrong quite often. But I believe we are right more often than we are wrong, and I think we're right here.
Now, personally I really want to be done with this topic, although I suspect it will continue on without my participation. As a historian, I actually study, read, and write on the history of U.S. racism (or to put it more accurately, the history of the social construction of "race" in the U.S) for a living. I work on this crap 7 days a week, for about 10 hours a day, so when I come on DT, I would much rather discuss the ponies.

[miraja2]

Wait, I'm not done afterall. I thought of something better.
Chuck, if GRITS was here she would be on your side of this argument. As far as I can tell, that means you are wrong and I am right.

[westcoastinvader]

I did find the picture of very bad taste.

The American racing fan better used to foreign horses coming over and taking your prize money, and not just from England and Ireland.

Everyone laughs when they see a horse from India, but everyone used to laugh at horses from Hong Kong and Japan, but now people run scared of them.

Everyone has to start from somewhere. In the next 10 years, you'll see many top horses coming from the likes of India and even Turkey (yes, you read it right, i did say Turkey). They are up and coming countries in this game, and if the big racing countries around the world dismiss them as has been done before many of us could look like complete fools.

[/i]

You could be right, and no problem if you are.

In the immediate future however, the gambler and handicapper in me says toss 'em from your wagers at American tracks.

For the record, I watched the race today without a wager, hoping the horse would show well.

And further for the record, I thought Mr. Frisky had a great shot at winning the Kentucky Derby some years back.

You live and learn.

[my miss storm cat]

Originally Posted by miraja2

Needless to say, I completely disagree with you here. Racism comes in all shapes and sizes. The Klan engages in one form of racist activity. People who use a person's race to influence a decision about who gets a promotion engages in another. One of the biggest misconceptions, however, that a lot of people seem to have, is that these obvious acts are all that falls under the category of racism. This is not the case. The world is not neatly divided between "racists" and angels. A lot of racism is born of ignorance rather than malicious intent. Things like caricatures can - and have - strenthened negative racial stereotypes for centuries. When something that is in "poor taste" is also racially insensitive, I firmly believe that the person responsible for it should be called on it. TheSpyder was called on it, and he handled himself appropriately.
Is making an offensive post on a horse racing message board the same as more blatant forms of racism? Of course not. Can such images and comments strengthen negative stereotypes? Yes. That is racism. Pure and simple. For what it is worth I can tell you that the vast majority of the academic community would almost unanimously call the post in question a "racist post." Now does that mean we are absolutely right? No, and I suspect that there will be a lot of anti-academic types here who will suggest that we are wrong quite often. But I believe we are right more often than we are wrong, and I think we're right here.
Now, personally I really want to be done with this topic, although I suspect it will continue on without my participation. As a historian, I actually study, read, and write on the history of U.S. racism (or to put it more accurately, the history of the social construction of "race" in the U.S) for a living. I work on this crap 7 days a week, for about 10 hours a day, so when I come on DT, I would much rather discuss the ponies.

I just wanted to applaud you on this eloquent and insightful post.

You've said it all. I appreciate that you took the time to compose it and agree with you 100 percent.

[The Bid]

Mexicans make the best tacos

[brianwspencer]

Originally Posted by miraja2

Wait, I'm not done afterall. I thought of something better.
Chuck, if GRITS was here she would be on your side of this argument. As far as I can tell, that means you are wrong and I am right.

lol, the world's most infallible indicator of who is actually right in a conversation.

never fails.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by miraja2

Wait, I'm not done afterall. I thought of something better.
Chuck, if GRITS was here she would be on your side of this argument. As far as I can tell, that means you are wrong and I am right.

That is a good point to which I have no counter

[satan's twin]

Originally Posted by The Bid

Mexicans make the best tacos

You insensitive, stereotyping bastard! Anyone who has ever crunched one of those delectable morsels knows that most exquisite tacos are made by the Dutch.