Less choice coming for New York City

[joeydb]

Originally Posted by GenuineRisk

So what do you feel is an appropriate punishment for women who abort a pregnancy? Death? Life without parole? Twenty years? Ten? Let's get down to brass tacks, here. What do you see as appropriate punishment?

What was the penalty in 1972 and prior?

Abortion is premeditated, so it would depend on the state law for murder regarding that modus opperandi. And if premeditated, there would also be sentence for the accomplices in the crime.

[GenuineRisk]

Originally Posted by Danzig

i'd rather they just had companies put the actual dietary info of the size you're buying on the label.
who here knows that 20oz soda bottles are considered 2 1/2 servings in a container?
that cinnamon roll in the vending machine? two servings. so is the microwave bowl of chunky soup-yeah, cause i share that big ol' bowl of soup with someone...it's too much to eat by myself.

And corporations fought very hard in the 1960s against having to do that.

Here in NYC, places like Starbucks and movie theaters are required to list the calories on what they sell. I know it's really affected what I buy. Eight hundred calories for a lousy dish of movie nachos? Fuggedaboutit.

[joeydb]

Originally Posted by Danzig

i'd rather they just had companies put the actual dietary info of the size you're buying on the label.
who here knows that 20oz soda bottles are considered 2 1/2 servings in a container?
that cinnamon roll in the vending machine? two servings. so is the microwave bowl of chunky soup-yeah, cause i share that big ol' bowl of soup with someone...it's too much to eat by myself.

Yeah, but New York says that you can't make that decision. They don't trust you to make that decision. You're thinking in terms of having complete information to make the decision with, which is certainly a reasonable way to look at it.

They've already decided that "they know what's best for you."

[GenuineRisk]

Originally Posted by joeydb

What was the penalty in 1972 and prior?

Abortion is premeditated, so it would depend on the state law for murder regarding that modus opperandi. And if premeditated, there would also be sentence for the accomplices in the crime.

I'm asking you what you think is an appropriate punishment for women who obtain abortions. If you were in the State legislature, what would you propose for these women?

[dellinger63]

Originally Posted by joeydb

Oh so there is a limit now on how many abortions? Per month, per year, per lifetime - what's the number?

12 a year from first menstration to last. 40 years? 480 total.

Abortion is the law as is the right to own arms. How many or how often is nobody else's business. However likewise paying or financing is also nobody else's business.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by GenuineRisk

And corporations fought very hard in the 1960s against having to do that.

Here in NYC, places like Starbucks and movie theaters are required to list the calories on what they sell. I know it's really affected what I buy. Eight hundred calories for a lousy dish of movie nachos? Fuggedaboutit.

yeah, they still fight it because they try to get away with using small serving sizes to fool people. it's appalling when you read some labels and realize what you're eating.
tony and i were on vacation, and spent a few days at disney world (i do NOT recommend anyone go there, it is a horrible, horrible place)...we each got a pretzel and cheese dip as a snack. i took a bite, and all i could taste was salt. looked at the cheese cup label-that cheese had 20% of your sodium intake for the day. ugh!


and liquor doesn't have labels-for now.

[GenuineRisk]

Originally Posted by joeydb

Yeah, but New York says that you can't make that decision. They don't trust you to make that decision. You're thinking in terms of having complete information to make the decision with, which is certainly a reasonable way to look at it.

They've already decided that "they know what's best for you."

No, Bloomberg is proposing restricting the size of soda beverage a company may sell. There is no restriction on how much soda a person may drink, only that they may have to make the decision to go back for seconds, thirds, fourths.

[GenuineRisk]

Originally Posted by dellinger63

12 a year from first menstration to last. 40 years? 480 total.

Abortion is the law as is the right to own arms. How many or how often is nobody else's business. However likewise paying or financing is also nobody else's business.

Please google "Hyde Amendment." It should put to rest your fears that you are paying for abortions.

[joeydb]

Originally Posted by GenuineRisk

I'm asking you what you think is an appropriate punishment for women who obtain abortions. If you were in the State legislature, what would you propose for these women?

I'm not an attorney, so if I was a PART of the legislature, I would research the law on what fits if abortion loses its current exception status with regard to murder.

As a committee in the legislature, we'd have to come up with a law that fits in terms of sentencing, deterrence, and prevention of the illegal activity in the first place. That vote wouldn't be taken overnight, and I'm not about to pen that new law here either.

Logic says that it is premeditated because it requires hiring a professional to do it.

[GenuineRisk]

Originally Posted by Danzig

yeah, they still fight it because they try to get away with using small serving sizes to fool people. it's appalling when you read some labels and realize what you're eating.
tony and i were on vacation, and spent a few days at disney world (i do NOT recommend anyone go there, it is a horrible, horrible place)...we each got a pretzel and cheese dip as a snack. i took a bite, and all i could taste was salt. looked at the cheese cup label-that cheese had 20% of your sodium intake for the day. ugh!


and liquor doesn't have labels-for now.

In the '60s they were against even listing ingredients.

I'm with you about Disney. Everything is very clean, very well designed and very fake.

[joeydb]

Originally Posted by dellinger63

12 a year from first menstration to last. 40 years? 480 total.

Abortion is the law as is the right to own arms. How many or how often is nobody else's business. However likewise paying or financing is also nobody else's business.

Not quite the same. The right to bear arms is enumerated in the Constitution and explicitly stated. Abortion is "deemed" a right because a majority of Justices in 1973 found a "right to privacy" that was not written down in the Constitution, and used that as a basis for another unwritten right.

Also, abortion cannot be used in self-defense like a firearm can. 200 million plus firearms in the country and only the smallest fraction is ever used in a crime.

Every abortion means that a life was snuffed out - many of us see that as murder, regardless of the age of the victim, and regardless that there were no witnesses except the doctor who killed the victim.

[GenuineRisk]

Originally Posted by joeydb

I'm not an attorney, so if I was a PART of the legislature, I would research the law on what fits if abortion loses its current exception status with regard to murder.

As a committee in the legislature, we'd have to come up with a law that fits in terms of sentencing, deterrence, and prevention of the illegal activity in the first place. That vote wouldn't be taken overnight, and I'm not about to pen that new law here either.

Logic says that it is premeditated because it requires hiring a professional to do it.

All I'm doing is asking your opinion. What do you think is an appropriate punishment? You must have a ballpark idea, seeing as how you are so clear that you think it's murder. So, what IN YOUR OPINION is an appropriate sentence for a woman who obtains an abortion?

[joeydb]

Originally Posted by GenuineRisk

No, Bloomberg is proposing restricting the size of soda beverage a company may sell. There is no restriction on how much soda a person may drink, only that they may have to make the decision to go back for seconds, thirds, fourths.

Yeah - they are restricting the size of the soda to be sold, so that you as a consumer do not have the option of selecting a larger size.

It does matter for the "on the go purchase". If you wanted a nice big soda for a long car ride, to fit in one cupholder, to have one large amount of ice to keep it cold, and even carry it to your car with one hand, you don't have that option.

[joeydb]

Originally Posted by GenuineRisk

All I'm doing is asking your opinion. What do you think is an appropriate punishment? You must have a ballpark idea, seeing as how you are so clear that you think it's murder. So, what IN YOUR OPINION is an appropriate sentence for a woman who obtains an abortion?

Well, you'd have to find something to compare it to. So, in a typical abortion scenario - where the fetus is dismembered and flushed out, or sucked out by vaccuum and ground up -either way, this is a murder with dismemberment of the body. That's a violent act. It's also premeditated.

Compare it to the same crime if the victim was an adult - mafia style hitman, hired by someone who wants the victim dead. The hitman did the chopping up of the body and disposal. He was also paid. But the crime would not have occurred had he not been hired by the person who wanted the murder to happen.

The answer to your question depends on the relationship of both accused parties to the crime. Do we give the hiring person the same sentence as the hitman? Is the hirer an accomplice, but the hitman the prime perpetrator?

My answer would lie along those lines - the sentence must be equivalent to what is done in other similar murders - not more harsh, but not lighter in sentence either.

[dellinger63]

Originally Posted by GenuineRisk

Please google "Hyde Amendment." It should put to rest your fears that you are paying for abortions.

Google Cook County Hospital abortion costs. There's a shortfall somewhere.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by joeydb

Oh so there is a limit now on how many abortions? Per month, per year, per lifetime - what's the number?

No. There are legal limits on when abortions can be performed. And taxpayer dollars don't pay for any of it.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Honu

Since men cant get pregnant, only cause it, they get no say IMO. I myself if I were inclined to want a penis inside me and got pregnant I couldnt kill the baby even if I didnt want it, but that is me and I am in no way shape or form someone to tell another what they should do with their body and whats inside it. This is the BIGGEST reason the morning after pill should be made available everywhere over the counter.

"If I wanted the government in my vagina, I'd screw a Senator".

[Riot]

Originally Posted by GenuineRisk

So what do you feel is an appropriate punishment for women who abort a pregnancy? Death? Life without parole? Twenty years? Ten? Let's get down to brass tacks, here. What do you see as appropriate punishment?

Isn't the punishment being legally responsible for 18 years of emotional and financial expense you didn't want? Bet that's a great life for that unwanted, unplanned child!

Of course, the anti-abortion folks don't care about fetuses once they breath oxygen, and they sure as hell don't want any financial support to the mother and child after the kid is born.

Thinking sex is only for procreation is ridiculous. And the new, "no birth control for you, either!" bullshi.a.t by those that want to own women and keep them barefoot, pregnant and dependent - well, that's not gonna work, fellas.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by joeydb

True - I know he was a Republican. But his liberal tilt makes it easy for me to forget. Another RINO.

Ronald Reagan would be a flaming liberal in todays Republican party.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by joeydb

Maybe next Bloomberg should outlaw the 16 oz pint of beer and the 12 oz bottle, preferring instead that going to the bar for a beer with the guys means ordering 12 one ounce shot glasses of beer...

The size of beer bottles, the volume of alcohol that can be served in "one serving" in bars, etc. is very heavily controlled in some jurisdictions.