well, did we win?

[Clip-Clop]

Originally Posted by bigrun

Not my mission statement..

According to U.S. President George W. Bush and British Prime Minister Tony Blair, the reasons for the invasion were "to disarm Iraq of weapons of mass destruction, to end Saddam Hussein's alleged support for terrorism, and to free the Iraqi people."

How many countries have we invaded to 'take out dictators'?...Iraq and...and...and..?

Invaded is an interesting term.
Libya, Cuba, Greece, Italy, Germany, Russia, Iran, Guatemala, Hungary (though this is still open to debate), Brazil, Haiti, Ecuador, Afghanistan (twice), Cambodia, The Congo, etc.etc.etc.

Know your history?

[Antitrust32]

Originally Posted by bigrun

How many countries have we invaded to 'take out dictators'?...Iraq and...and...and..?

this is too easy. we just did one a few months ago. we just didnt do it by foot.. just by air.

the answer is.......

[Clip-Clop]

Originally Posted by Antitrust32

this is too easy. we just did one a few months ago. we just didnt do it by foot.. just by air.

the answer is.......

See above, the list goes on and on...

[bigrun]

Originally Posted by Clip-Clop

Invaded is an interesting term.
Libya, Cuba, Greece, Italy, Germany, Russia, Iran, Guatemala, Hungary (though this is still open to debate), Brazil, Haiti, Ecuador, Afghanistan (twice), Cambodia, The Congo, etc.etc.etc.

Know your history?

Italy, Germany....Lol, hysterical... you left off Japan...

all the others, how many HOURS did we spent in any of them...except Afgan, but like i said 1000 times, after 911 bomb the schit out of the terrorist bases there, hunt down and kill bin laden and be out in ONE year tops...but bin laden was not a priority for dumya bush...had Iraq on his mind, remember...

[Clip-Clop]

Originally Posted by bigrun

Italy, Germany....Lol, hysterical... you left off Japan...

all the others, how many HOURS did we spent in any of them...except Afgan, but like i said 1000 times, after 911 bomb the schit out of the terrorist bases there, hunt down and kill bin laden and be out in ONE year tops...but bin laden was not a priority for dumya bush...had Iraq on his mind, remember...

Years and years. The intelligence community has replaced or repaired nearly every dictator in the last 70 years. You can't be more than 25 years old to be so narrow in your world views.

[Danzig]

the us basically entered the world stage (and became a partner in euro wars that have gone on for millenia) in world war one. i wonder sometimes how history would be now had we just stayed out and let germany win that one. there wouldn't have been a hitler, a ww 2, etc...everything that occured because of the 'peace' that ended ww1.
at any rate, hours doesn't begin to explain where we've invaded and what we've done over the last hundred-odd years.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by bigrun

Daddy one of the reasons,,,Everyone of his 'reasons' proved to non-existent.
If it was oil, why didn't we drain their oilfields?...


...how'd that work out...

So we should steal their oil?

[bigrun]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

So we should steal their oil?

No, we earned it...

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by bigrun

Italy, Germany....Lol, hysterical... you left off Japan...

all the others, how many HOURS did we spent in any of them...except Afgan, but like i said 1000 times, after 911 bomb the schit out of the terrorist bases there, hunt down and kill bin laden and be out in ONE year tops...but bin laden was not a priority for dumya bush...had Iraq on his mind, remember...

We are still in Germany, Japan, Korea...

[bigrun]

Originally Posted by Clip-Clop

Years and years. The intelligence community has replaced or repaired nearly every dictator in the last 70 years. You can't be more than 25 years old to be so narrow in your world views.

C'mon man, we're talking full scale invasions of soviergn countries that were not any threat to us!!...Not overnite rescues in Granada or taking out bin laden in Pakistan, or Bay of Pigs fiasco and Cuba was a definite threat and RFK stared down the Russkies....Don't try to compare Bush's costly folly in Iraq to any other 'invasion'...

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Danzig

the us basically entered the world stage (and became a partner in euro wars that have gone on for millenia) in world war one. i wonder sometimes how history would be now had we just stayed out and let germany win that one. there wouldn't have been a hitler, a ww 2, etc...everything that occured because of the 'peace' that ended ww1.

If the US hadn't entered and help halt Germany's advance WW1 might have never ended. We are talking about the US occupying Iraq for a few years like it is the greatest tragedy in history. You think that Germany would have peacefully ruled Europe especially with Russia looming on the Eastern front?

[bigrun]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

We are still in Germany, Japan, Korea...

But not as occupiers....and they want us there...hell, we are all over the world...

Isn't it odd that Germany and Japan started the war and we and allies defeated them and now those nations are among our best friends....

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

If the US hadn't entered and help halt Germany's advance WW1 might have never ended. We are talking about the US occupying Iraq for a few years like it is the greatest tragedy in history. You think that Germany would have peacefully ruled Europe especially with Russia looming on the Eastern front?

germany was on the cusp of winning the war when we got in. it's why they had once again said all shipping was a target; they figured they'd win out before we could get over there.

my only point was the peace that was forced on germany after that war was what eventually lead to ww2. i've done more studying on ww1, germany was made out to be the bad guy-but the start of that war, and the build up...well, i don't think germany was the only one at fault for that war.

i don't think us invading iraq was the greatest tragedy in history-there's a lot of history, and a lot of tragedy.
but i do think that it was a tremendous mistake. ill advised, ill planned, poorly waged, and took too much away from afganistan.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by bigrun

But not as occupiers....and they want us there...hell, we are all over the world...

Isn't it odd that Germany and Japan started the war and we and allies defeated them and now those nations are among our best friends....

not so sure you could say they want us there. they're just accepting of it in germany, cause there's nothing they can do to change it.
as for japan, they've been trying to get us out of there, especially okinawa, for years.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Danzig

not so sure you could say they want us there. they're just accepting of it in germany, cause there's nothing they can do to change it.
as for japan, they've been trying to get us out of there, especially okinawa, for years.

You honestly believe this? We are in those two countries specifically because they werent allowed to have a huge military buildup post world war 2 yet needed the protection from cold war Soviet Union and now in the case of Japan as a counter to China.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Danzig

germany was on the cusp of winning the war when we got in. it's why they had once again said all shipping was a target; they figured they'd win out before we could get over there.

my only point was the peace that was forced on germany after that war was what eventually lead to ww2. i've done more studying on ww1, germany was made out to be the bad guy-but the start of that war, and the build up...well, i don't think germany was the only one at fault for that war.

i don't think us invading iraq was the greatest tragedy in history-there's a lot of history, and a lot of tragedy.
but i do think that it was a tremendous mistake. ill advised, ill planned, poorly waged, and took too much away from afganistan.

"The peace forced on Germany" is an interesting way to put it. Perhaps "They lost" would be a better way to explain why German nationalism led to Hitler and WW2.

I wasn't inferring that you in particular said that Iraq was the greatest tragedy in history but when you look at past "wars" it really is hardly more than a blip on the radar screen.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

You honestly believe this? We are in those two countries specifically because they werent allowed to have a huge military buildup post world war 2 yet needed the protection from cold war Soviet Union and now in the case of Japan as a counter to China.

i know why we stayed there after the war. but it's been 70 years now. things have changed. however, the fact that we're still there doesn't mean japan and germany still want us there.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

"The peace forced on Germany" is an interesting way to put it. Perhaps "They lost" would be a better way to explain why German nationalism led to Hitler and WW2.

I wasn't inferring that you in particular said that Iraq was the greatest tragedy in history but when you look at past "wars" it really is hardly more than a blip on the radar screen.

i say forced on germany because france in particular laid most of the blame for the start of the war on germany, when in fact that's really not true. the weeks leading up to ww1 were a colossal cluster**** of epic proportions. had austria just gone into serbia on her own, things probably wouldn't have escalated as they did. but there's a saying that an unjust peace is better than a just war, so they ultimately agreed to the terms.
then there's the fact that an armistice was declared; it wasn't a win-more of a temporary ceasefire while they tried to work up a plan to end the war. germany almost went back to fighting again, rather than accept france's offer. wilson did his best to keep france from imposing such harsh terms. the harshness is what lead to everything that germany went thru after, and what lead to hitler's rise, and eventually to ww2 in europe.

and i agree completely-when one looks at iraq in a historical vein, it's nothing. however, it's impact on this country in its short history is huge.

on another note about ww1, if anyone is ever in kansas city, mo, the ww1 museum is located there. excellent displays, lots of info. 34000 miles of trenches on the western front alone.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Danzig

i know why we stayed there after the war. but it's been 70 years now. things have changed. however, the fact that we're still there doesn't mean japan and germany still want us there.

Have they really changed that much? N Korea has nukes, Russia will soon have a dictator once again, Iran is close to nukes, the Chinese have recently been rattling sabres. Japan and Germany get a personal bodyguard at a fraction of the cost it would have to spend if they did it themselves. Japan has had economic issues far longer than us and you better believe that they are happy to have us there when the N Koreans lob another rocket over them like they did not that long ago. If the Germans wanted us out, we would have been out but they dont want us to simply move to Poland which would be happy to have us.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Danzig

i say forced on germany because france in particular laid most of the blame for the start of the war on germany, when in fact that's really not true. the weeks leading up to ww1 were a colossal cluster**** of epic proportions. had austria just gone into serbia on her own, things probably wouldn't have escalated as they did. but there's a saying that an unjust peace is better than a just war, so they ultimately agreed to the terms.
then there's the fact that an armistice was declared; it wasn't a win-more of a temporary ceasefire while they tried to work up a plan to end the war. germany almost went back to fighting again, rather than accept france's offer. wilson did his best to keep france from imposing such harsh terms. the harshness is what lead to everything that germany went thru after, and what lead to hitler's rise, and eventually to ww2 in europe.

and i agree completely-when one looks at iraq in a historical vein, it's nothing. however, it's impact on this country in its short history is huge.

on another note about ww1, if anyone is ever in kansas city, mo, the ww1 museum is located there. excellent displays, lots of info. 34000 miles of trenches on the western front alone.

Sure but what if we hadnt got involvd and France and other countries were annexed. It would have only been a matter of time until Russia ramped up and went to war with Germany again and with the Germans so spread out most likely constantly putting out fires from the underground which wouldnt have been so happy with being taken over they might have actually lost. Would Russian control of Europe be a positive? Obviously hypo's but it isnt a given that germany would have sucessfully ruled Europe peacefully. As a matter of fact you could argue that there might have been multiple wars.