Bernadini/the reason for my doubts

I do not know enough about the trainer to make comment. But what I will comment on, is the fact that horses cannot talk. A trainer is so very important in being able to not only tell the level of fitness of a horse, and putting him in the appropriate races given current ability and fitness, but what kind of training will best suit the individual horse to get him to the desired level. If a horse shows vast unexpected improvement, how do we adjust the goals. If a horse shows great early promise and then tops out, how to rethink goals, and having enough respect and guts to tell the owners what you believe to be the truth about their million dollar investment that will no longer be able to take on the top level like once thought.

Think about humans in the top level of track. They all have trainers. And the top runners can tell the trainers when they are sore, what hurts, And they just dont feel good today, something aint right, im slipping badly on this surface, I need a friggin drink. Horses cannot talk.

This takes extraordinary people. The level of competition in the top tier is way too tough and fluid. Very talented horses pop out of nowhere. Good horses dont improve or dont want to run. I could screw up Bernardini. So could everyone else on this board.

I again think this is a case of the sage complex we have witnessed so often: taking an extraordinarily bred animal (which in itself is horribly inexact) that looks great moving and has a few extrordinary races, and proclaiming him the next great. Happens all the time and it is fun to write about.

[Buffymommy]

Now don't get me wrong. Bernardini is a good horse, but I have my reservations about him. Yes, he looked very impressive in his last two races, BUT didn't Sin Min look impressive in his Keenland romp? Didn't Bellamy Road look impressive in his romp as a three year old? There are more. AA looked impressive in a lot of races but you all are saying Bernardini is better than him too.

I guess that is why I am hesitant to get on this horse's bandwagon. Nothing to do with his trainer, owners, etc... Just want to see him go up against better competition before I title him "HOY" or even "Great".

[Thoroughbred Fan]

Oracle,

I think you are a pretty sharp guy who sometimes posts some really dumb things. Name calling is not going to get your money back on the bet. Betting horses is tough becasue no matter what they can lose. I am not defending Albertrani at all, but the alternative is to not have trainers give any comment to DRF.

People are wrong all the time, even the great trainers. Pletcher sent out Oonagh Maccool who was short. Or was she? Sometimes horses get a little bug that doesn't show up until after the race. Have you ever heard "She came out of the race with a little fever."? It happens.

I feel like you know enough about the game to know better than to call people names because you lost money. Please continue to provide valuable insight on this forum, but stop posting things you will later regret having said.

Originally Posted by Thoroughbred Fan

Oracle,

I think you are a pretty sharp guy who sometimes posts some really dumb things. Name calling is not going to get your money back on the bet. Betting horses is tough becasue no matter what they can lose. I am not defending Albertrani at all, but the alternative is to not have trainers give any comment to DRF.

People are wrong all the time, even the great trainers. Pletcher sent out Oonagh Maccool who was short. Or was she? Sometimes horses get a little bug that doesn't show up until after the race. Have you ever heard "She came out of the race with a little fever."? It happens.

I feel like you know enough about the game to know better than to call people names because you lost money. Please continue to provide valuable insight on this forum, but stop posting things you will later regret having said.

I reiterate strongly, the man is a liar or incompetent. Its either one or the other. I always insert and asterisk and disclaimer that if the horse has a bug or entraps or bleeds or gets injured that all comments on a poor performance are off the table. This case is no different. If the horse emerges with a problem than I take back every word about it. The man lied or he misjudged the fitness of a top flight animal. Its inexcusable and unprofessional. Missing a bug like Pletcher did and Ritchey did with Alex is quite understandable. Saying that the horse is ready to run and you have to run em wwhen they are ready if you are indeed prepping is just lying. The alternative is to tell the truth or not comment, not to lie.

[blackthroatedwind]

First of all, you are whining because you lost a bet, nothing more and nothing less.

So, trainer's are suddenly accountable ( in your world that is ) for everything they say. Good to know. Then, perhaps Dutrow should be held accountable for saying, in print, that Wild Desert was the best horse he had been around since Saint Liam. Boy did he defraud the poor betting public who were stupid enough to listen to him and bet Wild Desert in his next two ( losing ) efforts.

Try handicapping and blaming yourself when you lose for a change. Might make you reevaluate some of your handicapping principles and, believe it or not, strengthen your game.

Originally Posted by oracle80

I reiterate strongly, the man is a liar or incompetent. Its either one or the other. I always insert and asterisk and disclaimer that if the horse has a bug or entraps or bleeds or gets injured that all comments on a poor performance are off the table. This case is no different. If the horse emerges with a problem than I take back every word about it. The man lied or he misjudged the fitness of a top flight animal. Its inexcusable and unprofessional. Missing a bug like Pletcher did and Ritchey did with Alex is quite understandable. Saying that the horse is ready to run and you have to run em wwhen they are ready if you are indeed prepping is just lying. The alternative is to tell the truth or not comment, not to lie.

Oracle, go look at his stats. 21% and 48% in the money. The man has only being publicly training since 2004. Mandella is only 11% win and Mott is 21% win. He was the head assistant trainer for Mott in New York. He has handled such horses of Daylami, Street Cry, Cigar, Sakhee, Fantastic Light and Imperial Gesture. I would say those are some pretty good horses. So dont be mad because you lost some money. Dont be mad because his 1/9 shot lost. Many of trainer has sent out a 1/9 and lost. And you have said before that horses arent machines and you have said that trainers are alwasy going to tout their horses in the press. Now Oracle, come up with some concrete data as to why Albertrani sucks. Tell me one horse that he has screwed up--dont give me just one race.

[Scav]

I can see we have a new cage match forming

Originally Posted by Scav

I can see we have a new cage match forming

It looks like it is over before it began. I too would be upset if a 1-10 shot lost costing me $5K, but he has no argument here. The guy is a very good trainer. The Arabs don't just let any joker train their horses.

[LARHAGE]

Originally Posted by Cunningham Racing

Is he as good of a trainer as Pletcher?...probably not..I'll give you that...But, I really don't think he is far enough behind that you'll see a difference with this horse.....I really believe that.....Tom seems like a better-than-average horseman from what I can tell....

Pletcher gets the best stock period, Albertrani has done very well with the horses he has received, maybe if he hires Dr. Allday he too will reach the next plateau.

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

First of all, you are whining because you lost a bet, nothing more and nothing less.

So, trainer's are suddenly accountable ( in your world that is ) for everything they say. Good to know. Then, perhaps Dutrow should be held accountable for saying, in print, that Wild Desert was the best horse he had been around since Saint Liam. Boy did he defraud the poor betting public who were stupid enough to listen to him and bet Wild Desert in his next two ( losing ) efforts.

Try handicapping and blaming yourself when you lose for a change. Might make you reevaluate some of your handicapping principles and, believe it or not, strengthen your game.

Thanks, next time I'm looking for a grade one horse to buy I will think of those things.

Originally Posted by boldruler

It looks like it is over before it began. I too would be upset if a 1-10 shot lost costing me $5K, but he has no argument here. The guy is a very good trainer. The Arabs don't just let any joker train their horses.

LOL!!!!
Never said he was a joker, but hes not in the game's elite.

[Scurlogue Champ]

The arabs spread their horses around to everyone......

Apparently in England, every trainer has some Arab owned horses.

Originally Posted by eurobounce

Oracle, go look at his stats. 21% and 48% in the money. The man has only being publicly training since 2004. Mandella is only 11% win and Mott is 21% win. He was the head assistant trainer for Mott in New York. He has handled such horses of Daylami, Street Cry, Cigar, Sakhee, Fantastic Light and Imperial Gesture. I would say those are some pretty good horses. So dont be mad because you lost some money. Dont be mad because his 1/9 shot lost. Many of trainer has sent out a 1/9 and lost. And you have said before that horses arent machines and you have said that trainers are alwasy going to tout their horses in the press. Now Oracle, come up with some concrete data as to why Albertrani sucks. Tell me one horse that he has screwed up--dont give me just one race.

I note you are naming horses he has "been around". Completely unfair. Asst trainers do the majority of gruntwork but don't call the shots as far as training goes. That responsibility lies within the trainer. Mott trained Cigar, not anyone else. He made the calls. The guy who makes the calls is the guy who gets the glory or is the goat. In my opinion Don Zimmer had as much to with the Yankees winning those World series as Torre did. But Torre is the guy who had to make the calls.

Originally Posted by oracle80

LOL!!!!
Never said he was a joker, but hes not in the game's elite.

He has been training less than 2 years. Of course he isnt going to be in the elite. Give the man some time. He is doing one heck of a job so far.

[Scurlogue Champ]

And when I say "every trainer" I don't really mean every one literally.

[LARHAGE]

Originally Posted by oracle80

Bottom line is that the original plan was the Kings Bishop. He called an audible, may not even have been his call(I doubt it was). Now, thats all cool and the horse being short is cool also. Whats not cool? Very not cool is telling the media all that ****ing bull**** he did in the articles about him being ready to win and blah blah blah and you gotta run em when they are this good, blah blah blah. Hes either a) a liar or b) misjudged his horses fitness level very badly which makes him incompetent. Plain and simple. That horse was short as could be.

I guess Pletcher lied about Oonagh Macool being the best mare he ever trained, or she didn't get her juice.

Originally Posted by boldruler

It looks like it is over before it began. I too would be upset if a 1-10 shot lost costing me $5K, but he has no argument here. The guy is a very good trainer. The Arabs don't just let any joker train their horses.

Ok so tell me about the great training jobs he has done in his name please. If he has done so many gret jobs it should be childs play to rattle them off your head.

Also I will bet any of you that before the Kings Bishop or Songster's next race that Albertrani tells the press that Songster was short before the Amsterdam. Anyone want that bet?

Originally Posted by oracle80

Ok so tell me about the great training jobs he has done in his name please. If he has done so many gret jobs it should be childs play to rattle them off your head.

Again, he has only been training 2 years. You cant say if it is good or bad. But from the stats, he is doing a pretty good job. Time will only tell.

Originally Posted by eurobounce

He has been training less than 2 years. Of course he isnt going to be in the elite. Give the man some time. He is doing one heck of a job so far.

With what horses? Other than Bernadini please name one.