MARKETING CONVERSATIONS: 2 interesting pieces

[Rootdog1]

Your perception of the game is sad to me. You want to change the profile of the people at the track and my comments are about how to change the way the game is marketed to people, which in the end should improve the people at the track.

[Rootdog1]

Have you ever been to a Hollywood Park friday nite? Keeneland doesnt have nite racing and yes, there is a college crowd in party mode......for the freaking 6 weekends a year it is open. You need to think about your argument more.

[Travis Stone]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

Seriously, its only sustainable at Keeneland, Saratoga, del mar and now churchill downs?

Why would it not be sustainable anywhere else? And why couldn't it help to draw more fans for the days that it wasn't a "party"?

It's much more complicated than just saying reduce dates, make it a party.

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by Travis Stone

It's much more complicated than just saying reduce dates, make it a party.

I realize this. These are really broad strokes.

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by Rootdog1

Your perception of the game is sad to me. You want to change the profile of the people at the track and my comments are about how to change the way the game is marketed to people, which in the end should improve the people at the track.

Root-

That's the folly of it rootdog. There are steps you have to take to attract people. Marketing the game as a thinking person's sport is not novel. If you think it's "puzzles" that are bringing people to poker I would suggest you watch it's coverage.

[Rootdog1]

I dont watch its coverage...thats my point.

I do see your argument, but I stand by my comment that marketing it as a party is not sustainable.

later

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by Rootdog1

I dont watch its coverage...thats my point.

I do see your argument, but I stand by my comment that marketing it as a party is not sustainable.

later

Its not just marketing it as a "party" although that would certainly be better than the present course. The puzzle thing is myopic at best.

Perception, perception, perception. Events like Churchill's opening night can't be measured simply in profit and handle although they were successful in both counts (not sure how much they made). What percentage of those 38,000 may come back on a regular basis? What do we do to hook them on the game once you have them IN. At that point, maybe the puzzle thing works.

Gambling isn't just limited to racetracks anymore. You want new gamblers, you have to realize that gamblers aren't strictly men. The stereotype that women don't gamble real dollars is just that...a stereotype. Attracting women will not only bring in more women but it will also bring in more men.

What do women want? Scratch that, what are the other successful gambling ventures providing in terms of overall entertainment value and image to attract people of both sexes? What type of environment? What is currently successful in horse racing? How can these things be mimicked and expanded upon?

This is basic marketing. Its as if all of these zillionaires that run the show never went to college.

[Antitrust32]

Gulfstream has done the things you mention Dala, I guess we can just wait and find out how what the long term results are.

[Dahoss]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Horse racing doesn't control the content of NBC's show. NBC does the same thing with the Olympics. They sell human interest crap to attract women viewers. It is the reason that things like figure skating which is more reality TV with Russian judges than sport get top billing.

They probably actually think they are catering to gamblers by giving the odds a few times and telling us who Mike Battaglia likes.

I'm aware it doesn't control the content of NBC's show.

If racing could get the people who do control it to cater to gamblers instead of drooling fans holding signs, we'd be on to something.

[Dahoss]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

This outmoded thinking is exactly why the sport is going in the toilet. Why is it impossible to create a festive atmosphere in places other than the ones that have already done it? I fail to understand why people think the present course will actually work.

You aren't going to get enough SMART people that are DUMB enough to bet horses regularly...certainly not if your means of attracting them is by pitching this silly puzzle thing.

The places you named, as well as downs after dark, do well because they sell it as an event as well as an image. The image of high society with things that appeal outside of racing and gambling. I agree that the backbone is still the gambler but in order to attract new ones you have to change the perception of the track being a seedy place where a bunch of degenerate losers and nursing homers go to waste their lives away.

Vegas didn't get you in by selling you the gambling. They sold the party and lifestyle.

Stick to off topic and sports threads.

[Dahoss]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

I still can't understand why people dont understand why this won't work?

The appeal of horse racing should be that you can make money at it. That if you work hard enough at it you can figure out the puzzle and be financially rewarded. All this other stuff is fluff.

Trying to create an atmosphere where every racing day is an event outside of Saratoga or maybe Keeneland or Del Mar is pretty much impossible. Not to mention that most tracks heavily depend on simulcasting which will always be hard to make sexy. Too often when we talk about big picture ideas in racing we forget that the majority of racing is not Saturday at Saratoga.

The game needs to attract people smart enough to appreciate and relish the challenge of handicapping and greedy enough to keep coming back.

This sums it up pretty well.

The other thing I don't hear mentioned enough is it's not as though we have a shortage of gamblers out there. We're a society of action junkies looking to bet on anything. We just need to steer them in our direction.

[horseofcourse]

In the end, I think the problem is that you do actually need to study AND be smart to make money gambling on horse racing. Society is now very fast paced and most don't have the time to make the time investment to be successful doing it. I tried it for a year and a half and found out very quickly, I couldn't do it. I was flushing money down the toilet. I quit. I always liked the sport for the thoroughbred running aspect of it as their efficiency of running fast is pretty cool, but I've got a family and a job and crap taking up time that I simply don't have the ability to gamble on the sport at all. I just don't.

Unfortunately society is getting more dumbed down by the second, and the fact that you actually need to think in gambling on horse racing is a detriment in my opinion. You need no thinking to pull a lever and that is where we are headed more and more.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

Maybe you are on to something here Chuckers. Is Louisville any more "horse racing friendly" than say NYC? And even if it is, the sheer size of the urban venues could easily create the same gate if sold the right way.

Handle was up over 25% year over year not to mention rev from concessions.

Is Louisville more horse friendly than NYC? Have you ever been there?

The truth remains that CD is the most famous and recognizable place in L'ville and the fact is there simply isnt that much to do there unlike most other sizable urban areas.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

This outmoded thinking is exactly why the sport is going in the toilet. Why is it impossible to create a festive atmosphere in places other than the ones that have already done it? I fail to understand why people think the present course will actually work.

You aren't going to get enough SMART people that are DUMB enough to bet horses regularly...certainly not if your means of attracting them is by pitching this silly puzzle thing.

The places you named, as well as downs after dark, do well because they sell it as an event as well as an image. The image of high society with things that appeal outside of racing and gambling. I agree that the backbone is still the gambler but in order to attract new ones you have to change the perception of the track being a seedy place where a bunch of degenerate losers and nursing homers go to waste their lives away.

Vegas didn't get you in by selling you the gambling. They sold the party and lifestyle.

Ok take today for example. How do you suppose we create an event atmosphere for Belmont on a typical Thursday?

We need to sell gambling because that is our product. What has been written about is hardly the current course. I guess people who think like you just dont understand or refuse to acknowledge that economic realities exist and we can't make every day Xmas.

I find it hard to believe that we can trick potential gamblers into thinking that they are high society people and then they will start to become regulars. Especially when virtually all the growth in the gambling market is online.

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by Dahoss

Stick to off topic and sports threads.

Or?

Will you troll me and say mean things to me?

Lets stay on topic. Certainly you are bright enough.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

Seriously, its only sustainable at Keeneland, Saratoga, del mar and now churchill downs?

Why would it not be sustainable anywhere else? And why couldn't it help to draw more fans for the days that it wasn't a "party"?

Most days CD is deserted. Keeneland is 15 days every 6 months right in th middle of horse country. Saratoga isnt exactly jammed on Mondays/Wednesday and Thursday and by the end of the meet the festive atmosphere has worn off.

And the fact is that Saratoga has the history angle, and Keeneland and CD are located in one of the few areas where horse racing is still a big deal. Why do you think that you can bottle this festive atmosphere and transfer it other places?

[Dahoss]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

Or?

Will you troll me and say mean things to me?

Lets stay on topic. Certainly you are bright enough.

Will I troll you and say mean things to YOU?

That's rich.

Those are your tactics. Own them, or cry about it in another thread.

The problem is you aren't bright enough for this thread. Which is why I suggested you stick to the areas where you can pretend you are.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Antitrust32

Gulfstream has done the things you mention Dala, I guess we can just wait and find out how what the long term results are.

Most days at GP the track crowd is pretty small.

[MaTH716]

Tracks have to make things as easy as possible as far as wagering/watching races online and hope it translates to people wanting to spend a day at the track when the opportunity arises.

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Ok take today for example. How do you suppose we create an event atmosphere for Belmont on a typical Thursday?

We need to sell gambling because that is our product. What has been written about is hardly the current course. I guess people who think like you just dont understand or refuse to acknowledge that economic realities exist and we can't make every day Xmas.

I find it hard to believe that we can trick potential gamblers into thinking that they are high society people and then they will start to become regulars. Especially when virtually all the growth in the gambling market is online.

No one starts as a 500 dollar a hand player in Las Vegas. Many people didn't go to Vegas the first time to gamble. Many go for the shopping, shows, spas and restaurants. Many Blackjack players started out in nickel slots. Many craps players started with Roulette.

I agree that the gambler is the backbone but there are other ways to bring new gamblers in or even create them that are much better than what isn't working.

The "high society" thing is simply meaning that we have to change the perceptions. We have to be realistic about the perception of the game to the masses. That is what most fail to grasp.

Is Belmont Park female friendly? Would you feel comfortable taking a date there? Compare it to what Churchill Downs has done with the renovations.

I realize that every day can't be Christmas. But if you make more "christmas like" days, perhaps you can draw more than 50 people on regular days. Perhaps if the first experience someone has at Belmont Park isn't with Broken toilets, bad food and a general lack of hygene, maybe they might come back and bring other people with them. Maybe one out of twenty ends up falling in love with the sport...like we did.

Gambling is our product and selling gambling will ensure that all you get is current gamblers. Good luck selling that vig in those venues. Good luck when horse racing results aren't even published in most newspapers on a daily any longer. Good luck when ESPN has it on their website with "other sports".

The product should be "entertainment" because you want to draw current gamblers and prospective gamblers.

To answer your original question about Belmont, days like these are inevitable. You can bolster them much better if you can provide a better overall experience in your "event" days. I think that they need to do a monmouth style thing and shorten the racing days or close some tracks. There aren't enough horses.