Who would ever get into this game now?

[jcs11204]

Originally Posted by Split Rock

Can't refute either BUT, and it's a big BUT, the game seemed a little more fair 20 years ago. What is happening now is so obviously crooked that I cannot even begin to defend it. I personally know three players that bet enormous amounts daily that have quit the game outright. Two of them play poker and the other spends his gambling dollar on sports betting. All three quit because it was an impossible game to play.

poker is the real deal.....

[GBBob]

Originally Posted by Split Rock

Can't refute either BUT, and it's a big BUT, the game seemed a little more fair 20 years ago. What is happening now is so obviously crooked that I cannot even begin to defend it. I personally know three players that bet enormous amounts daily that have quit the game outright. Two of them play poker and the other spends his gambling dollar on sports betting. All three quit because it was an impossible game to play.

Maybe because everyone cheated 20 years ago it was a more level playing field and 'easier" to play then?

There are honest guys out there now but they get caught up in the high profile positives and general hysteria of Biancone, Ass, etc. I understand what you are saying and your frustrations, but you make these all encompassing statements about everyone cheating, and this game sucks, and I wonder why, if you feel that way, you are even interested anymore?

[ELA]

Originally Posted by GBBob

Maybe because everyone cheated 20 years ago it was a more level playing field and 'easier" to play then?

There are honest guys out there now but they get caught up in the high profile positives and general hysteria of Biancone, Ass, etc. I understand what you are saying and your frustrations, but you make these all encompassing statements about everyone cheating, and this game sucks, and I wonder why, if you feel that way, you are even interested anymore?

Well, let's wait a minute here -- he either meant everyone is cheating or he just meant the two trainers he maligned in his first post.

Eric

[Cannon Shell]

I thought the funny part was the guy who quit horseracing to bet sports because horseracing has too many drugs...guess he hasnt been paying much attention since in the last year half of baseball has been implicated as being on steroids, the NBA has a ref arrested for fixing games and he describes a whole lot more than him, the NFL has lineman that the Feds have turned into drug informants, Tennis matches reportedly have been rigged, a report comes out and says that shaving points in college basketball is happening, easy to do and nobody is watching...

[ELA]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

I thought the funny part was the guy who quit horseracing to bet sports because horseracing has too many drugs...guess he hasnt been paying much attention since in the last year half of baseball has been implicated as being on steroids, the NBA has a ref arrested for fixing games and he describes a whole lot more than him, the NFL has lineman that the Feds have turned into drug informants, Tennis matches reportedly have been rigged, a report comes out and says that shaving points in college basketball is happening, easy to do and nobody is watching...

All of those sports you mentioned, and even with everything wrong with them, they are easier to handicap. LOL.

Eric

[mnmark]

Split Rock, I also Play Canterbury Park regularly and have for many years, I live 8 miles from the track. I agree with your assesment of horses trained by Evans and to a lessor extant Jamie Ness. without looking at win% I can tell you that most of Jamies wins seams to be when he has the best horse that is spoted right. I have lost quite a few wagers on Jamie this year when I thought they would just magically improve so to speak and that hasnt really happened that much with him. Justin Evans horses horses on the other hand just win when they look overmatched on paper. and he seams to be beating Ness straight up when they both have a horse in the same race more than not. The biggest red flag has been the pounding Evans horses have taken at the windows since opening day. Alot of Evans winners go from 8-5 to 3-5 late. He must be serving Strawberry shakes because his success or dominance has been alot more alarming and head scrathing then Jamie Ness in my opinion.

[Split Rock]

Originally Posted by mnmark

Split Rock, I also Play Canterbury Park regularly and have for many years, I live 8 miles from the track. I agree with your assesment of horses trained by Evans and to a lessor extant Jamie Ness. without looking at win% I can tell you that most of Jamies wins seams to be when he has the best horse that is spoted right. I have lost quite a few wagers on Jamie this year when I thought they would just magically improve so to speak and that hasnt really happened that much with him. Justin Evans horses horses on the other hand just win when they look overmatched on paper. and he seams to be beating Ness straight up when they both have a horse in the same race more than not. The biggest red flag has been the pounding Evans horses have taken at the windows since opening day. Alot of Evans winners go from 8-5 to 3-5 late. He must be serving Strawberry shakes because his success or dominance has been alot more alarming and head scrathing then Jamie Ness in my opinion.

It is so utterly ridiculous. Evans is taking money from other honest trainers and, to top it off, he and his owners are waiting until 30 seconds to post and absolutely hammering these horses down (With Smoke went from 9-2 to 6-5 on the last click the other day and won by 11) and they are taking money from the players, as well.

Would like to know when these guys will be caught. They are ruining the game.

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by Split Rock

The entire sport is fiction. It's impossible to believe even ONE feat of accomplishment due to the massive abuse.

Does anyone think this will change for the better? I certainly don't see an end in sight.

I think things will change for the better at the bigger tracks. They seem to be cracking down on things a little bit more now. The big tracks have the money to put guys under surveillance and do barn raids and these types of things.

I don't really follow the smaller tracks much, but I wouldn't be overly optimistic about things improving there. They just don't have the money to do the things that it takes to catch the cheaters.

[Rupert Pupkin]

I strongly disagree that there were more cheaters 20 years ago. I think there are way more cheaters now. There are way more drugs being used today both legal and illegal. As Jack Van Berg said, there used to be 4 vets on the whole backside at Santa Anita 30 years ago. Now you have over 30 vets.

Vet work is such a huge part of the game today. How could anyone possibly say that things were just as bad 30 years ago. That is absurd.

Things are 100x worse today. Horseracing today has become a battle of vets and chemists. That is half the game today. It never used to be like this in the past.

[Storm Cadet]

Horse racing is broken...just like our economy...probably have the same type of people making policy for the masses. And I don't see either recovering anytime soon.

So with a crappy economy, and with oil prices still surging, housing in the tank for at least the next few years, we're staring at a long BEAR market for stocks and mutual funds, WHO would want to INVEST in a business with a 95% loss history for owners? IMO, ANY disposable income better be salted away for the rough times ahead.

[ELA]

Originally Posted by Storm Cadet

Horse racing is broken...just like our economy...probably have the same type of people making policy for the masses. And I don't see either recovering anytime soon.

So with a crappy economy, and with oil prices still surging, housing in the tank for at least the next few years, we're staring at a long BEAR market for stocks and mutual funds, WHO would want to INVEST in a business with a 95% loss history for owners? IMO, ANY disposable income better be salted away for the rough times ahead.

Very clear, concise and to the point. Agreed 1000%. I won't get into the economy aspect as I don't want to contribute to an all out brawl here, LOL.

I do think that in certain isolated cases, we are seeing improvements -- here in NJ, at Monmouth Park (and the Meadowlands for the harness game). From what I gather, they are starting to crack down more and catch more. We've seen the state walk into Bruce Levine's barn and pull blood on every horse and we've seen some harness trainers/owners get caught and hit with major fines and suspensions. Is this the answer? In and of itself, no, but it certainly is part of it. More, better testing, new rules and regulations, more enforcement -- now we just need more of it and on a national, industry/sport wide scale.

Eric

[Cannon Shell]

Drugs have always been a problem, just no one wanted to talk about it. Sublimaze, etorphine, etc were being used throughout the 70's without detection. These are much stronger and dangerous than what is being used now. Dr. harthill got a horse a positive test in the Derby in the 60's. Think that was the only one he hit? Preston King went from being leading trainer in NY to being personna non grata overnight. Want to guess why? Oscar, need I say more? There have always been trainers that had high percentages except no one kept track of percentages. Horses have alwys been hopped, hell the guy that trained Seabuscuit served a year for drugs. We just know a whole lot more now. because you didnt know about it didnt mean it wasnt happening.