Bernardini ?

[richard burch]

i think we should be discussing invasor's place in history.

[RolloTomasi]

Originally Posted by richard burch

i think we should be discussing invasor's place in history.

Conquerer of AP Arrow and Wanderin Boy as well as the racehorse formerly known as Premium Tap (who beat Sun King at 18-1 in an overnight stakes).

[NTamm1215]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

folded, lost...whatever. It was his only test against a real horse and he lost. How about that?

Come on, now, you know that the Jockey Club Gold Cup he won was really an unbelievable group. Wanderin Boy- a one-dimensional Grade II/III type, Andromeda's Hero- argh, and a turf horse in Dylan Thomas.

I completely agree that if you want to talk about a talented horse who we didn't see enough of then Candy Ride absolutely comes to mind.

NT

[jcs11204]

Originally Posted by NTamm1215

Come on, now, you know that the Jockey Club Gold Cup he won was really an unbelievable group. Wanderin Boy- a one-dimensional Grade II/III type, Andromeda's Hero- argh, and a turf horse in Dylan Thomas.

I completely agree that if you want to talk about a talented horse who we didn't see enough of then Candy Ride absolutely comes to mind.

NT

i will agree with candy ride, but not the other 2 he named

[ateamstupid]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

true. No question to his talent. Its just interesting that the only time that he was tested, he folded.

The best of the horses we didnt see enough of? Hah! Ever see Candy Ride? Mizzen Mast? Lamtarra? I could go on all night about horses that fit that criteria that would have smoked bernardini.

I don't know who you're referring to with your second paragraph, because I never said he was the best of horses we didn't see enough of.

In regard to your first paragraph though, I find it funny when people say he "folded". He ran second by a length to a very good horse.

[NTamm1215]

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi

Conquerer of AP Arrow and Wanderin Boy as well as the racehorse formerly known as Premium Tap (who beat Sun King at 18-1 in an overnight stakes).

Hey, don't forget that Invasor beat Wild Desert also, who was capable of working out when he really didn't.

NT

[jcs11204]

Originally Posted by NTamm1215

Hey, don't forget that Invasor beat Wild Desert also, who was capable of working out when he really didn't.

NT

i think bernardini was better then invasor

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi

Mizzen Mast? Ouch. He did nothing of note beyond being scratched from the Big Cap and "targeting" the Met Mile, which is Frankel code for "he's done". He did beat some 17-hand horse that previously was 3rd in the Pegasus at the Meadowlands a couple of times, not to mention I Love Silver, who Point Given beat by about 10 lengths or so in the SA Derby.

He was a horrendous failure in France, though.

Well in between he did win the strub g2 and the malbu g1 while beating stake winner giant gentleman and multiple graded stake winner and eclipse winner orientate. But, lets forget about that.

I admit, his superiority to bernardini is dubious and is definitely according to my biased eye.

[odbaxter]

Originally Posted by jcs11204

i will agree with candy ride, but not the other 2 he named

I'm kinda partial to Mineshaft.

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by jcs11204

i will agree with candy ride, but not the other 2 he named

Did you ever see Lamtarra? Have you ever even heard of Lamtarra?

If you agree with Candy Ride i dont know how you could doubt that one.

[jcs11204]

Originally Posted by odbaxter

I'm kinda partial to Mineshaft.

mineshaft... yes

[NTamm1215]

Originally Posted by jcs11204

i think bernardini was better then invasor

You are one of the very few people I've ever encountered who routinely proclaims that horses who are beaten by other horses are better than them in general. In the last two weeks you said the runner-up in the NY (Dynaforce?) is better than Mauralakana, that Proud Spell is better than Music Note and now Bernardini is better than Invasor.

I'll agree that the best horse often gets beat on a given day but I cannot possibly agree that Bernardini was better than Invasor. In fact, I can't event imagine what you'd use to substantiate that notion. Don't even try to say that Bernardini didn't show up in the Classic because he ran basically the exact same race he had all summer and fall and still lost.

NT

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

I don't know who you're referring to with your second paragraph, because I never said he was the best of horses we didn't see enough of.

In regard to your first paragraph though, I find it funny when people say he "folded". He ran second by a length to a very good horse. I shudder to think what people would've said he did had he not had a sixteenth between his ass and Premium Tap.

Invasor went past him without any resistance what so ever. The only reason it was not by more is because he started his run later.

And its not like Bernardini ran a bad race. He made a bold move on the turn and was in position to win. But a champion, a real champ, meets that challenge and at least puts up a fight. Can you really sit here and say he did that? Or was it more like he just gave it up?

[richard burch]

Originally Posted by jcs11204

i think bernardini was better then invasor

read this and think again...bernardini couldn't carry invasor's feed bucket!!!

006 Breeders' Cup

On November 4, 2006 Invasor, ridden by Fernando Jara, won the $5 million Breeders' Cup Classic at Churchill Downs, Kentucky. The field included favored Bernardini, second favorite Lava Man, and European three-year-old champion George Washington. Invasor, under the guidance of the 18-year-old jockey Jara, passed Bernardini in the home stretch, defeating Bernardini by a length. This win essentially secured the Eclipse Awards for Older Male Horse and Horse of the Year.


2007 Season
On February 3rd, 2007, Invasor won his fifth successive Grade I victory in the Donn Handicap at Gulfstream Park. Coming from off the pace, he was virtually stopped when Barcola, the long-shot pacesetter, began backing up. Under jockey Fernando Jara, Invasor was forced to check. Trying to angle off the rail he was still blocked, clipping heels with Barcola. Coming into the stretch, Invasor and Jara found the hole they needed and squeezed through, achieving a two length victory over Hesanoldsalt ridden by Rafael Bejarano.


2007 Dubai World Cup

On March 31, 2007 Invasor, again ridden by Fernando Jara, took the $6 million Dubai World Cup in the United Arab Emirates against his rival Discreet Cat. His time of 1:59.97 for 2,000 meters was the second fastest in the race's history, exceeded only by Dubai Millennium's time of 1:59.50 in 2000. Discreet Cat finished last by 23 lengths, but a very game Premium Tap, who had led the pace, battled Invasor in the stretch for place with the Hong Kong horse, Bullish Luck, third

Retirement

Invasor was retired on June 23, 2007[1] due to the fracture of a bone in an area he had injured when he was younger. He will stand at stud at Shadwell Farm in Lexington, Kentucky for the 2008 season.

B] The one race he lost, he finished fourth. His career earnings were $7,804,070.

[RolloTomasi]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

Well in between he did win the strub g2 and the malbu g1 while beating stake winner giant gentleman and multiple graded stake winner and eclipse winner orientate. But, lets forget about that.

I admit, his superiority to bernardini is dubious and is definitely according to my biased eye.

Giant Gentleman was the mediocre Pegasus horse I was talking about. And just to be clear, he beat Orientate in the 9f Strub, not the 7f Malibu--which would have actually meant something. But no need to make that distinction.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by jcs11204

HIS RACE ? go watch the replay, he was in a all out drive with no response turning for home, then he suddenly kicks it in, STRANGE.

dude, the horse wasn't off--he beat every horse in the field but the rightful hoy. he looked much better prior to that as he wasn't facing horses the likes of invasor. he barely lost the race. he wasn't off, flat, or short--he barely lost the thing. you do no justice to him by making excuses. gimme a break. you jump on my thread, and then tell ateam he's the man--but i didn't bash the horse--he deserves credit for his run that day, it was a good one. just wasn't good enough to win.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

Did you ever see Lamtarra? Have you ever even heard of Lamtarra?

If you agree with Candy Ride i dont know how you could doubt that one.

PG,
Lammtarra was the Eurohorse of the year in 1995. 1995 happened to be one of the weakest european seasons on record. In fact saying that bernardini couldnt beat lammatarra is like saying the Boston Celtics couldnt beat the Dallas Cowboys.

PG, tell em that Bernardini will be a much better sire than Lammtarra...lets see them poke fun at you for that!

[the_fat_man]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

Invasor went past him without any resistance what so ever. The only reason it was not by more is because he started his run later.

And its not like Bernardini ran a bad race. He made a bold move on the turn and was in position to win. But a champion, a real champ, meets that challenge and at least puts up a fight. Can you really sit here and say he did that? Or was it more like he just gave it up?

What are you DELUSIONAL? This isn't about the best horse winning or champions finding that something XTRA, it's about SETUPS. That's the hard truth of this game. Racing is all about which horse gets the better trip. It's about flows. It's about jockeys making poor decisions and getting horses beat. To think that an individual horse can overcome a setup against it in a given race is about as naive as one could get. To even the novice tripper, BERNIE MOVED TOO SOON. Simple as that.

P.S. I could care less what the FIGURES say.

[RolloTomasi]

Originally Posted by the_fat_man

What are you DELUSIONAL? This isn't about the best horse winning or champions finding that something XTRA, it's about SETUPS. That's the hard truth of this game. Racing is all about which horse gets the better trip. It's about flows. It's about jockeys making poor decisions and getting horses beat. To think that an individual horse can overcome a setup against it in a given race is about as naive as one could get. To even the novice tripper, BERNIE MOVED TOO SOON. Simple as that.

P.S. I could care less what the FIGURES say.

So if you don't care about figures, but you think Bernardini moved to soon, how do you decide who is the better horse, him or Invasor?

By the way, I'm a casual observer here, My selection, DAVID JUNIOR, PULLED UP TOO SOON.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

You really bet David Junior in that race?