Norman gets six-month suspension

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin

It costs the trainer a ton of cash when they get a 6 month suspension. They don't get any of the purse money. I always figured that the assistat trainer would secretly give them the money, but they can't do that. If they got caught, they could lose their license. You don't want to mess with a racing board when it comes to these types of things because I have been told that they can check bank records and that type of thing. I don't think the trainer is supposed to have any contact with the barn. The racing board can check phone records and that type of thing.

With regard to your question about whether the suspension will effect the performance of a barn, it can have a big effect. I think it depends alot on how hands on the head trainer is in the first place. If he is very hands on, then it can have a big effect. Sometimes the assitant is as good as the head trainer, but often times he is not.

I think that Asmussen's absence has made a big difference in terms of the performmance of first-time starters. Blasi is only winning at a 9% clip with first-timers. I think Asmussen was at around 20%.

Anyone that thinks that Assmussen's 6 month suspension has hurt him is dead wrong. He has actually picked up business, Steve is at all the sales, has more time to call clients and develop new ones like Beverly Lewis. If you believe that he has not been in contact with his assistants you are completely kidding yourself. And if you believe that any state racing commission is tracking financial records or phone calls then you are really kidding yourself. Assmussen's assistants train the divisions anyway, the guy can only be in one place at a time.

[Danzig]

didn't a ceo of a company just get fired and charged with criminal acts due to bugging telephones?
all they can do is suspend these guys. they don't have the legal right to track phone calls and finances. they have no right to subpoena any of that stuff. it's horse racing, not the fbi. they can limit access to property under their control, that's about it.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Danzig188

didn't a ceo of a company just get fired and charged with criminal acts due to bugging telephones?
all they can do is suspend these guys. they don't have the legal right to track phone calls and finances. they have no right to subpoena any of that stuff. it's horse racing, not the fbi. they can limit access to property under their control, that's about it.

They may have the right to do some investigating but they wont. Usually comes down to the budgets are too small and the investigators aren't that bright or ambitious. Biggest problem is that owners dont seem to care about integrity any more. These guys know that they can push the envelope and not get burned too bad because the owners will stick with them. I will guarantee that people who post on this board care far more about integrity in regard to illegal medication than most big owners. Example #1 Beverly Lewis. Fires Lukas hires Blasi/Assmussen. I mean there was not one other trainer out there that could have taken those horses? She had to go with a guy with 2 6 month suspensions? I understand that the call was made by an "advisor" but she has ultimate responsibility. There are some owners out there that do care but so many don't so ......

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by Danzig188

didn't a ceo of a company just get fired and charged with criminal acts due to bugging telephones?
all they can do is suspend these guys. they don't have the legal right to track phone calls and finances. they have no right to subpoena any of that stuff. it's horse racing, not the fbi. they can limit access to property under their control, that's about it.

A horse racing board is part of the government. They have the right to subpoena phone records and bank records. I'm not saying that they will do it, but they can do it if they want to. A friend of mine was on the CHRB for a long time. This guy also happens to be a lawyer. He was the one who told me that they can do this.

If you read any of the articles about trainers who get caught with positives, you probably know that once you get caught with a positive, they search your barn, they search your car, I think I read that they even searched a guy's house. They can pretty much do whatever they want.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin

A horse racing board is part of the government. They have the right to subpoena phone records and bank records. I'm not saying that they will do it, but they can do it if they want to. A friend of mine was on the CHRB for a long time. This guy also happens to be a lawyer. He was the one who told me that they can do this.

If you read any of the articles about trainers who get caught with positives, you probably know that once you get caught with a positive, they search your barn, they search your car, I think I read that they even searched a guy's house. They can pretty much do whatever they want.

No offense but the CHRB has been the biggest joke of a racing commission that we have in the US. They are finally doing some good things but they were horrible for years.

[ELA]

Perhaps a trainer or someone involved with a governing body or something of the like can clarify this, however -- when a trainer gets suspended, besides being barred from the grounds, the racing commission or board can prohibit him/her from speaking with their assistant? I would want to see some site on that.

In addition, the same applies to financial side?

I am sure it doesn't happen, but are the rules clear on this?

Can anyone clarify this?

Eric

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by ELA

Perhaps a trainer or someone involved with a governing body or something of the like can clarify this, however -- when a trainer gets suspended, besides being barred from the grounds, the racing commission or board can prohibit him/her from speaking with their assistant? I would want to see some site on that.

In addition, the same applies to financial side?

I am sure it doesn't happen, but are the rules clear on this?

Can anyone clarify this?

Eric

Surely rules vary state to state and I am not a lawyer but it would seem to be a violation of a persons civil rights to prohibit them from speaking with anyone. Like it or not these are not criminal offenses and there is really no way to stop a person from speaking to another. Monitoring any sanctions are virtually impossible regardless of what the rules are. When you sign your license there usually is a section that deals with credit check and financial responsibility but as far as being able to check records, I dont think that racing commissions have the power to do so.

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by ELA

Perhaps a trainer or someone involved with a governing body or something of the like can clarify this, however -- when a trainer gets suspended, besides being barred from the grounds, the racing commission or board can prohibit him/her from speaking with their assistant? I would want to see some site on that.

In addition, the same applies to financial side?

I am sure it doesn't happen, but are the rules clear on this?

Can anyone clarify this?

Eric

I just called my buddy from the CHRB. He wasn't home. I will talk to him in the next day or so and get some clarification. I did talk to him about this though a couple of months ago. I was asking him how big a deal it is when a trainer gets a long suspension and the horses are put in the assistant's name. I had assumed what many on this board assumed. I assumed that even though the horses are running under the assistant's name, that the main trainer was still getting the money and the main trainer was still calling the shots. He told me that the head trainer is not allowed to get any money and if he gets caught taking the money from the assistant that he would be in big trouble. He also told me that they can check bank records. I'm not as clear on what he told about communication between the assistant and the head trainer. I could have sworn that he told me that the head trainer is not allowed to be communicating with the assitant trainer and running the show. I thought he said that there was to be no communication between the trainer and the barn. I will get some clarification on this when I talk to him.

By the way, just to give you guys an idea of how far government agencies will go at times, I have a friend who bought just a small amount of stock in a company a few days before they got bought out. He didn't have a huge position by any means. He had bought about 300 shares of this $12 stock. Then a month later, he bought another 700 shares at about $15. The company got bought out for $18 a share a few days later. About a year or so later, my friend got a subpoena from the SEC. Not only did he have to go to their offices and answer questions for hours, but they checked his phone records, they checked all of his bank statements, they demanded he hand over his address book, etc. They thought that maybe he had gotten some inside information on the stock. Anyway, nothing ended up happening to my friend. There was no evidence that he had any inside information. But this just gives you an idea how powerful these government agencies are. By the way, this incident happened back in the early 1990s.

[outofthebox]

I'm sure that Asmussen and Norman haven't thrown their condition books away. I'm sure they are all marked with all the horses races picked out. And about no communication with the Asst's, that just isn't happening. Now how the money is handled, that i don't know.
I remember one summer at Saratoga a certain trainer serving days actually paid a house owner some $$$ to use his backyard on the backside of the Oklahoma track so he could train his horses. Nyra knew about it but couldnt do anything about it since he wasn't on their property...

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin

I just called my buddy from the CHRB. He wasn't home. I will talk to him in the next day or so and get some clarification. I did talk to him about this though a couple of months ago. I was asking him how big a deal it is when a trainer gets a long suspension and the horses are put in the assistant's name. I had assumed what many on this board assumed. I assumed that even though the horses are running under the assistant's name, that the main trainer was still getting the money and the main trainer was still calling the shots. He told me that the head trainer is not allowed to get any money and if he gets caught taking the money from the assistant that he would be in big trouble. He also told me that they can check bank records. I'm not as clear on what he told about communication between the assistant and the head trainer. I could have sworn that he told me that the head trainer is not allowed to be communicating with the assitant trainer and running the show. I thought he said that there was to be no communication between the trainer and the barn. I will get some clarification on this when I talk to him.

By the way, just to give you guys an idea of how far government agencies will go at times, I have a friend who bought just a small amount of stock in a company a few days before they got bought out. He didn't have a huge position by any means. He had bought about 300 shares of this $12 stock. Then a month later, he bought another 700 shares at about $15. The company got bought out for $18 a share a few days later. About a year or so later, my friend got a subpoena from the SEC. Not only did he have to go to their offices and answer questions for hours, but they checked his phone records, they checked all of his bank statements, they demanded he hand over his address book, etc. They thought that maybe he had gotten some inside information on the stock. Anyway, nothing ended up happening to my friend. There was no evidence that he had any inside information. But this just gives you an idea how powerful these government agencies are. By the way, this incident happened back in the early 1990s.

Richi,
No state racing regulatory agency has powers that supercede the rights of citizens of United States.
I find it extremely unlikely that they can tell people who they may and may not call. As a matter of fact, if they were to attempt to acess the phone records or bank records of someone, that would be illegal and actionable.
Only police or givernemnet agencies have the power to do that, and even they have to obtain a warrant from a judge to do so.
They can say that there shall be no communication all they want, but an attempt to enforce that outside of the racetrack would be a violation of the rights if these people.
Furthermore, since it would only be an enforcement of a racing edict, and constitute no crime for these people to speak, how exactly are they going to obtain warrants? They don't even have the power to do that.
Were they to obtain this information unlawfully, which would seem to be the only way to do it, it would be the racing agency who was in hot water, not the trainer or asst trainer.