3/8 (SA): Big Cap, Kilroe (G1's), San Carlos, San Felipe (G2's)

[pmayjr]

Originally Posted by RockHardTen1985

No way he wins that MSW on Friday. Tough group.

Fine, but if he can't beat a salty group of MSWs, he shouldn't be running in the San Felipe.

[RockHardTen1985]

Originally Posted by pmayjr

Fine, but if he can't beat a salty group of MSWs, he shouldn't be running in the San Felipe.

I totally agree. To be honest though, now that Bayern is out they might as well take a shot. He might be able to clunk up and hit the board again.

[theguarantee]

Originally Posted by RockHardTen1985

I totally agree. To be honest though, now that Bayern is out they might as well take a shot. He might be able to clunk up and hit the board again.

Bayern looked like a cinch to me. I thought Rprettyboyfloyd was the most intriguing alternative option. Maiden or not, he's only been beaten by quality. May appreciate the stretchout to two turns (hey - maybe he's a closing sprinter, I know)...and if you re-watch the San Vicente closely I think you'll be a bit intrigued (I was at least, we all watch races differently).

[theguarantee]

I guess I don't play Santa Anita enough. Can't seem to find this info -- does anyone know what races pk-4's and pk-6 will offer? Also, I know they are notoriously late on the morning lines but are they really still not out or am I blind?

[pmayjr]

By the way,

I know I'm in the severe minority on this, but the competition in the Big Cap is likely to be tougher than the Dubai World Cup for Mucho Macho Man. If he loses Saturday his connections deserve to take crap for not shipping there.

I'm at work so if this starts debate, gimme a couple hours to reply.

[Jay Frederick]

Originally Posted by pmayjr

By the way,

I know I'm in the severe minority on this, but the competition in the Big Cap is likely to be tougher than the Dubai World Cup for Mucho Macho Man. If he loses Saturday his connections deserve to take crap for not shipping there.

I'm at work so if this starts debate, gimme a couple hours to reply.

The Big Cap is run at arguably his favorite course on a surface we know he handles. So how is the competition in the Dubai World Cup going to be softer, especially when you factor in the surface?

[ateamstupid]

Originally Posted by pmayjr

By the way,

I know I'm in the severe minority on this, but the competition in the Big Cap is likely to be tougher than the Dubai World Cup for Mucho Macho Man. If he loses Saturday his connections deserve to take crap for not shipping there.

I'm at work so if this starts debate, gimme a couple hours to reply.

The level of competition is meaningless. Shipping him across the world to run on a surface he most likely can't handle is asinine, especially with the opportunity to add a race as prestigious as the Big Cap to his resume staring them in the face.

His connections deserve credit win or lose for keeping him home.

[Revidere]

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

The level of competition is meaningless. Shipping him across the world to run on a surface he most likely can't handle is asinine, especially with the opportunity to add a race as prestigious as the Big Cap to his resume staring them in the face.

His connections deserve credit win or lose for keeping him home.

[pmayjr]

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

The level of competition is meaningless. Shipping him across the world to run on a surface he most likely can't handle is asinine, especially with the opportunity to add a race as prestigious as the Big Cap to his resume staring them in the face.

His connections deserve credit win or lose for keeping him home.

He's won the biggest race in North America over that surface already. What would it matter if he wins the Big Cap against 2 horses he's already beat? I hope he gets a chance to do it again in November, but to me him running in the Big Cap is the equivalent of Wise Dan running in another G2 mile race on the turf.

How the heck do you know if he'll handle the Meydan synth surface or not unless he tries? He'd be running against a bunch of turf horses probably trying the surface for the first time, and a few that have done well at Meydan, but against questionable competition.

4th place in the Dubai World Cup pays more than 1st place in the Big Cap. And the prestige that a Group 1 placing on synthetic would add to his stud value goes wayyy further than another win over the Santa Anita Dirt (unless that next win is in November).

I totally get that he probably wouldn't run again until July or August, but that's plenty of time to get fit for the Breeders Cup. I'm also one that seriously won't rip MMM or his connections if they were to branch out and they failed. Because they at least would've took the risk to take on the best in the world. Same for Wise Dan if he were to try going to Dubai for a mile turf race and he failed. Because they would've tried.

It's really cool that we get to see these 3 run in the Big Cap (and I'm excited to watch the race), but I still think Dubai is the better move.

[Indian Charlie]

Originally Posted by pmayjr

4th place in the Dubai World Cup pays more than 1st place in the Big Cap. And the prestige that a Group 1 placing on synthetic would add to his stud value goes wayyy further than another win over the Santa Anita Dirt (unless that next win is in November).


It's really cool that we get to see these 3 run in the Big Cap (and I'm excited to watch the race), but I still think Dubai is the better move.

You are trolling.

[pmayjr]

I swear I'm not trolling.

But I totally get that I'm talking to a brick wall.

Seriously, what does he have to prove at Santa Anita before November? He's beaten both of the main competitors in that race over that surface in the biggest race in North America (Kentucky Derby included).

I love that these 3 are gonna race against each other on Saturday. How often do we get to see that? Big time horses either duck each other until the Breeders Cup (if they ever meet up) or they retire first. So it's awesome.

But it makes no sense to me... especially with the decision for MMM to stay in training and not go to stud after winning the Classic last year- that he not go for the big $$$? A synthetic win or good placing in Dubai does way more for him than the Big Cap.

Pat Cummings please join me on this lonely island lol

Schoolofhardrocks is the unknown horse. He may pull the upset. David Hofmans is a sneaky trainer

[NTamm1215]

Originally Posted by pmayjr

but to me him running in the Big Cap is the equivalent of Wise Dan running in another G2 mile race on the turf.

Oh my God.

[Indian Charlie]

Originally Posted by pmayjr

By the way,

I know I'm in the severe minority on this, but the competition in the Big Cap is likely to be tougher than the Dubai World Cup for Mucho Macho Man. If he loses Saturday his connections deserve to take crap for not shipping there.

I'm at work so if this starts debate, gimme a couple hours to reply.

I am going to let this one go, since it's been awhile since you made a post like this.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by pmayjr

By the way,

I know I'm in the severe minority on this, but the competition in the Big Cap is likely to be tougher than the Dubai World Cup for Mucho Macho Man. If he loses Saturday his connections deserve to take crap for not shipping there.

I'm at work so if this starts debate, gimme a couple hours to reply.

do you have a stake in the dubai world cup?


how do you reconcile this:

Originally Posted by pmayjr

I really really really really really want you to be right. It's surreal to me that all the big timers are meeting for this race. What happened to every major horse ducking each other for the most part until November? I'm cheering for him to get back to the BC(and for Will Take Charge, Dude, etc), but I'm just really skeptical. Especially after an announced stud deal.

with you still kvetching about not going to dubai?

as for him having a boost to his stud resume with a win over synthetic (assuming he wins)...the move back to dirt in cali (and probably eventually all tracks again) completely belies any notion that synthetic ability is a bonus or that breeders will be looking for that when making a breeding decision.

for years people decried the big cap losing prestige (and the oaklawn handicap as well) because people chased the money halfway around the world.....i can't understand why you feel so strongly that would be the right move for this horse, especially knowing the overall successes, or lack thereof, for american horses since the surface change there.
competition is the key, and i'd imagine they are planning a campaign for horse of the year. a win here would be very significant for MMM. at dubai? not even close.
as for the purse there-money won is one thing, graded wins another. was HOY the last two years the top money earner?

[pmayjr]

Once again, he already has the biggest win he'll ever have over the SA surface. Last I checked, Keeneland, Arlington, Woodbine, GG, Ocala and some international tracks still use synthetic. If he does well over a synthetic surface, you could start thinking more internationally with the horse's stud potential than just as a son of Macho Uno that can only throw dirt winners.

You don't know unless you try...

[Alabama Stakes]

got ashes with Ritvos sister on Wednesday. She says the big hoss is in fine fettle. He is right where he should be. After poor management of him at 3, they have figured out what is best. He loves it fast and hard and thats what he gets in Cali. He should never leave there. Dubai not on dirt....why would they even consider it.

[pmayjr]

Originally Posted by Alabama Stakes

got ashes with Ritvos sister on Wednesday. She says the big hoss is in fine fettle. He is right where he should be. After poor management of him at 3, they have figured out what is best. He loves it fast and hard and thats what he gets in Cali. He should never leave there. Dubai not on dirt....why would they even consider it.

why?
http://youtu.be/N9Q-JlJJRSA

This is statement is trolling. I'm not.

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

Word! He should totally ship across the world to see if maybe his offspring could potentially win the Ben Ali or the Hanshin Cup.

Nick,

The Wise Dan analogy is a little strong. What I'm getting at, is you've already proven what you can do. Branch out. Expand. Take a risk. Try. I won't rip on the connections for failing if they try. A perfect example is African Story who is running tomorrow in Dubai. Last year, at a mile over synth he won everything. There was a synth mile race on Dubai World Cup race that he probably would've won with ease. But his connections decided to try the Dubai World Cup at a longer distance against some random American horse named Animal Kingdom. Didn't work out too well. But I give his connections credit for trying.

So horses can ship in from all other points in the world to Dubai, and they sometimes handle it, sometimes don't. But at least they're sporting about it. I'm not just talking about Europeans that have nowhere else to go during the winter. I'm saying South American, Australian, Asia, etc.

[NTamm1215]

Originally Posted by pmayjr

why?
http://youtu.be/N9Q-JlJJRSA

This is statement is trolling. I'm not.


Nick,

The Wise Dan analogy is a little strong. What I'm getting at, is you've already proven what you can do. Branch out. Expand. Take a risk. Try. I won't rip on the connections for failing if they try. A perfect example is African Story who is running tomorrow in Dubai. Last year, at a mile over synth he won everything. There was a synth mile race on Dubai World Cup race that he probably would've won with ease. But his connections decided to try the Dubai World Cup at a longer distance against some random American horse named Animal Kingdom. Didn't work out too well. But I give his connections credit for trying.

So horses can ship in from all other points in the world to Dubai, and they sometimes handle it, sometimes don't. But at least they're sporting about it. I'm not just talking about Europeans that have nowhere else to go during the winter. I'm saying South American, Australian, Asia, etc.

Sorry, the African Story analogy misses the mark too. He is stabled in Dubai and his connections simply opted for a tougher race. It's not like was sent here for the Met Mile in lieu of running in another Godolphin Mile and/or Dubai World Cup. Mucho Macho Man has only won two Grade Is in his career. While he is clearly a ready-made stallion already, adding to his resume with prestigious and time-honored races like the Big Cap is always the best move.

At risk of being chastised by Pat Cummings, other than money for the owners, why would American racing fans want our horses to go to Dubai? The rest of the world is still going to look down their noses at our drug-ridden cripples, even if we somehow find a way to sweep the card. The races are run over a surface that has no history or tradition in our racing, and the impact from a breeding perspective is negligible.

As people in this thread have posted already, we've been dying for matchups like this to occur outside of the BC, and we're finally getting it. That's clearly a good thing.

[ateamstupid]

Originally Posted by pmayjr

This is statement is trolling. I'm not.

No, just pointing out how intentionally ridiculous you're being. I dunno what happened to you -- you used to be a decent poster -- but you're turning yourself into a worse troll than PG1985 in his prime. Chill out.

Originally Posted by Indian Charlie

Breaking news.


Mucho Macho Man is a late scratch from the Big Cap. Word is they are going to run him in the San Simeon, because they want to improve his stud value by appealing to turf sprinter pedigrees.


When asked, a source close to the horse, who wished to remain anonymous, said that winning the Big Cap would prove nothing, so to extend his appeal to more potential breeders, a decision was made to race him in something outside his comfort zone.

After long consideration, the first plan, to win the Beads & Bangles Stakes at Fairplex Park, was dropped when his connections learned that he would not be eligible for the race.

"This seemed like the next most logical spot for him to increase his stud value," said the source, speaking of the San Simeon, a race normally run at 6.5 furlongs down the hillside course at Santa Anita.

"We also gave brief consideration to going to Dubai for the Golden Shaheen, but when support for this idea came pouring in from a crazed fan from the Internet, we knew we had to do right by the horse and stay at home."