Best Horse of 2006 - Page 3

ArlJim78 · #41 11-27-2006, 12:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hwjb

Hate to be pernickety, but Barbaro wasn't undefeated.

Worldwide, given their conditions, it's very difficult to split Bernardini, George Washington and Rail Link.

In terms of pure form all three are a mite above the likes of Deep Impact, Barbaro, Invasor and Discreet Cat, for all that the second named may well have proved capable of better and the last 2-named may well still do so.

How is George Washington a might better than Invasor? Didn't they race against each other once with a decisive outcome in favor of Invasor?

ArlJim78 · #42 11-27-2006, 12:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ArlJim78

How is George Washington a might better than Invasor? Didn't they race against each other once with a decisive outcome in favor of Invasor?

Oh of course the same goes for Bernardini who was in the same race.

#43 11-27-2006, 12:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ArlJim78

Oh of course the same goes for Bernardini who was in the same race.

I personally have never seen a greater state of "denial" in my life than I have about the BCC.
Its not even like anyone had a bad trip to blame it on, well except Invasor who lost a lotta ground on the turns and ran against the bias off a layoff that was NOT BY DESIGN that also hindered him.
You'd listen to folks now and you just can't believe that they haven't accepted the outcome.

Cannon Shell · #44 11-27-2006, 12:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oracle80

I personally have never seen a greater state of "denial" in my life than I have about the BCC.
Its not even like anyone had a bad trip to blame it on, well except Invasor who lost a lotta ground on the turns and ran against the bias off a layoff that was NOT BY DESIGN that also hindered him.
You'd listen to folks now and you just can't believe that they haven't accepted the outcome.

Invasor took advantage of a "dead rail" when winning the classic. It's all about the bias baby!!

ArlJim78 · #45 11-27-2006, 12:26 PM

I'm convinced Invasor is the Rodney Dangerfield of racing, never getting respect. The only horse to have any claim on him is Discreet Cat because of the Dubai race and I only dream that we get to see that rematch.

Hwjb · #46 11-29-2006, 03:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ArlJim78

How is George Washington a might better than Invasor? Didn't they race against each other once with a decisive outcome in favor of Invasor?

Simple really, because George Washington ran to a better level of form when winning the QEII at Ascot, and Bernardini did so when winning the Travers, than they did in defeat in the BCC. You can't make season-long ratings on the back of run, especially when one of the horses you seek to denigrate is having his first run on a new surface upped to a trip he doesn't stay!!

ArlJim78 · #47 11-29-2006, 09:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hwjb

Simple really, because George Washington ran to a better level of form when winning the QEII at Ascot, and Bernardini did so when winning the Travers, than they did in defeat in the BCC. You can't make season-long ratings on the back of run, especially when one of the horses you seek to denigrate is having his first run on a new surface upped to a trip he doesn't stay!!

May I ask you what you mean when you use the term, "run to a better level of form"? How do you know that GW's level of form in the QEII at Ascot on the turf, exceeded Invasors level of form in the Classic on the dirt?

Nothing in my prior statements denigrated George Washington. Why did they send him to the Classic, did they not think he could stay?

Also you have contradicted yourself. You are telling me that you can't make season long ratings based on one race, the BCC, yet you are making season long ratings for GW and Bernardini based on one race, (The QEII and the Travers).

#48 11-29-2006, 09:21 AM

Attempting to compare a grass race run in Europe to a dirt race run in America borders on total lunacy.

blackthroatedwind · #49 11-29-2006, 09:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oracle80

Attempting to compare a grass race run in Europe to a dirt race run in America borders on total lunacy.

Borders is unusually wishy washy for you.

Hwjb · #50 11-29-2006, 10:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ArlJim78

May I ask you what you mean when you use the term, "run to a better level of form"? How do you know that GW's level of form in the QEII at Ascot on the turf, exceeded Invasors level of form in the Classic on the dirt?

Nothing in my prior statements denigrated George Washington. Why did they send him to the Classic, did they not think he could stay?

Also you have contradicted yourself. You are telling me that you can't make season long ratings based on one race, the BCC, yet you are making season long ratings for GW and Bernardini based on one race, (The QEII and the Travers).

I'm just using the QEII and the Travers as these two races represented the best performances in the world in 2006 (both 132). Also Bernardini's efforts in the JCGC (131+) and Jim Dandy (130+, from a form perspective, were better than his effort in the BCC. Now I will admit that these races don't represent the most solid of form, so it is difficult to make hard and fast conclusions. Also, Invasor's profile remains progressive, so it's impossible to say that he wont improve further.

As for George Washington, his QEII run we have rated at 132+ (cf with Invasor's 128+ for the BCC). I'm in no way simply looking to "compare a grass race run in Europe to a dirt race run in America" as someone else suggested, but rather assigning figures (in lbs) to what each horse has actually achieved, and establishing a figure to which they can realistically run to.

Therefore, for whatever the reason, I'm asserting that both Bernardini and GW were below their best in the BCC. For the latter the reasons are fairly obvious, but for Bernardini they are not at all so, are bound to raise debate, and represent a dilemma over which we all have a view.

#51 11-29-2006, 10:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

Borders is unusually wishy washy for you.

Its my birthday and I'm in a reflective and calm mood.

blackthroatedwind · #52 11-29-2006, 10:13 AM

Well, considering Araafa's brilliant showing in the BC Mile I would think the QE II's rating should be dramatically reconsidered.

It's funny, as much as we tend to overrate the Euros, the people from Europe are even more extreme.

Hwjb · #53 11-29-2006, 10:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

Well, considering Araafa's brilliant showing in the BC Mile I would think the QE II's rating should be dramatically reconsidered.

It's funny, as much as we tend to overrate the Euros, the people from Europe are even more extreme.

Come now, Araafa was at least a stone below his best in the Breeders' Cup. That much is self evident...take a line through Sleeping Indian.
Killybegs has subsequently shown the QEII form to be solid.

repent · #54 11-30-2006, 02:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hwjb

Come now, Araafa was at least a stone below his best in the Breeders' Cup. That much is self evident...take a line through Sleeping Indian.
Killybegs has subsequently shown the QEII form to be solid.

Harry,
man I hope that goes for every Euro in that race.

they did a great "no show".
I really think Europe had some nice milers this year, but I knew I was in trouble when Ferguson (or someone from the godolphin camp) was already explaining to the interviewer why Librettist was going to lose 10 minutes BEFORE the race.
not a good sign.

Repent

ArlJim78 · #55 11-30-2006, 06:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

Amusing as always. Psychotic, but amusing. I had no idea I was on the same board with the guy who discovered track bias, wow. Here's a little tid bit for everyone, I discovered turf to dirt, and first off of the claim angle. Beat that Dixie.

Face it hoss, it's Dixies world, and you and i just live in it.