Joel Stein: "Now I get it"

[Calzone Lord]

What he describes is what they've been trying to market as racings appeal for the last several years.

In the glory years of the sport, it was said "there is little of the true spirit of sport and good feeling among people who attend the races. It is all envy, jealousy, cynicism, hatred, disrespect for authority --- even the humor is sardonic."

And in those same glory years...horse racing dominated pool halls in every city.

Pittsburgh Phil had amassed a fortune in his early 20's -- A.) without ever having watched a horse race before in his life and B.) by betting on horses through the bookies that operated in Pittsburgh's Pool halls.

He did it simply by keeping records of horses names, as well as the winners running time and their margin of victory, thus allowing him to create something resembling a homespun result chart.

If you look to the time period when horse racing was as big as any sport in the entire country (1880s through mid 1920s) -- it wasn't popular because it was some social event, held at beautiful venues. Not in the least.

If "getting" horse racing means accepting it as a social event, where people wear hats, sip on cocktails, watch celebrities athlete make bets, and chat with each other for 30 minutes in between races ... I sure as hell don't get it.

[Kasept]

It's not an either/or proposition Doug. It's a gambling game, it's a convivial social setting. It doesn't matter which aspect initiates interest. Players and owners just need to be cultivated.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by Kasept

It's not an either/or proposition Doug. It's a gambling game, it's a convivial social setting. It doesn't matter which aspect initiates interest. Players and owners just need to be cultivated.

Still, there is a VERY important distinction, and an important one for the industry. Of course we want people to come to the track and enjoy themselves. Of course we also believe there are some great social situations at the track. Some of us are even old enough to remember when even degenerates found constant camaraderie at the racetrack. However, in order for the industry to thrive, people NEED to, at least eventually, gamble. I understand that the more people that get exposed to racing, the better chance we have to cultivate them as players, but we need to cultivate them as PLAYERS, and not settle for them enjoying an occasional social afternoon ( or evening ). Unless we find a way to do this at least somewhat successfully, we are not being helped by encouraging newcomers to attend. However, the onus is on us.

[Kasept]

I'm a firm believer, based on the myriad I've personally brought to the track over 20+ years, that once they come, the intoxication of the gambling works it's magic. And agree of course that the onus is on us at all junctures.

[pmayjr]

But also...

How do you get... just 1 out of every 10 casual fans that go to the track on a big day- Derby, BC, or even something like Extreme Race Day that draws in as many fans as whatever local track's biggest stake day is, to come back again. To learn to read a pp? To become a somewhat regular bettor?

Most of those people that come can't read a PP. So they're picking numbers.A name they like. No real educated guess. It's just a novelty to them. That doesn't do all that much good for the longterm health of the sport.

If casual fan looks at a PP for the first time, they most likely see- 1 part stock market report, 1 part Swahili and 1 part something from the Matrix (the movie). And you're dealing with a lot of people where they lose interest quick when they realize that they can't learn it in 5 minutes.

To me that's the challenge. How do you educate people without them losing interest? I mean, the fact that you're making an educated decision in your gambling should appeal to some (as opposed to hoping the dice roll right, or that the dealer busts). But I try to emphasize to new people I try and teach the game to, that if you read a pp, and you see the one stat or angle that -gives you the long-shot winner, that good feeling you get is way better than getting a blackjack or hitting a flush on the river.

But I still struggle with what is the best way to teach these things. There's a few vids on how to read a past performance on youtube, and they're either too dull, dry, and sometimes too unclear to wanna watch them... tough... sorry, rambling, but I think if we can find a way to get 1 out of every 10 casual fans to become regulars, that would be huge. Not sure it's possible?

[Port Conway Lane]

Originally Posted by pmayjr

But I try to emphasize to new people I try and teach the game to, that if you read a pp, and you see the one stat or angle that -gives you the long-shot winner, that good feeling you get is way better than getting a blackjack or hitting a flush on the river.

Bravo ! Good for you. You're doing your part. You know the old expression, you can lead a horseplayer to water....
Your job ends there, to an extent. More people like yourself need to expose friends to the game. However, you have to know which of those people are candidates.

1.Disposable income
2.Time
3.Gambling nature (Mandatory)
4.Puzzle solver (Will make your job easier,they don't need too much instruction and frankly, don't want it.)

In my somewhat limited social circle I know one person who I could invite to my home, show him the tools available and in 4 Saturdays he would be opening a Twinspires account having never set foot on a racetrack.

How do you educate people without them losing interest?

From my own experience I came to the conclusion that I needed to keep it simple. I drew an oval, marked the start and finish, pointed out what the "big number" and "little number" meant in the running lines and told them to ignore the rest. Once they understood where the horses positions were on the diagram during the running of the race it made it easier for them to understand the numbers.

As the day evolved I refrained from "teaching" too much unless they asked questions.

It's not an easy game and obviously positive results will beget more interest but I wouldn't put too much pressure on myself. I believe the true horseplayer you bring to the the track will get it win or lose.

[Calzone Lord]

Originally Posted by Port Conway Lane

1.Disposable income
2.Time
3.Gambling nature (Mandatory)
4.Puzzle solver (Will make your job easier,they don't need too much instruction and frankly, don't want it.)

Horse bettors don't have the greatest general reputations anymore.

My girlfriend had a 'New Girl' episode on, filmed at Santa Anita. Of course, the old guy (Dennis Farina) who takes the young people to the track is a crook, out to pull a con. He owes one of the kids $1,100 and cons another into buying a horse.

This is how Santa Anita described the scene:

Santa Anita Director of Community Services and Special Events Pete Siberell points out that an episode of “New Girl,” shot at Santa Anita last Nov. 29 and 30 by Twentieth Century Fox Television, airs at 9 p.m. tonight on Fox. The show stars Zoey Deschanel, and in the episode, actor Dennis Farina returns from his “Luck” gig for some comedy hijinks. Their bit in the saddling barn is pretty funny

[Sightseek]

Originally Posted by pmayjr

To me that's the challenge. How do you educate people without them losing interest? I mean, the fact that you're making an educated decision in your gambling should appeal to some (as opposed to hoping the dice roll right, or that the dealer busts). But I try to emphasize to new people I try and teach the game to, that if you read a pp, and you see the one stat or angle that -gives you the long-shot winner, that good feeling you get is way better than getting a blackjack or hitting a flush on the river.

But I still struggle with what is the best way to teach these things. There's a few vids on how to read a past performance on youtube, and they're either too dull, dry, and sometimes too unclear to wanna watch them... tough... sorry, rambling, but I think if we can find a way to get 1 out of every 10 casual fans to become regulars, that would be huge. Not sure it's possible?

That is definitely the hardest part of bringing people to the track. When you love the game, you love all of the angles, but it is hard to isolate which angles to teach.

[randallscott35]

Originally Posted by Kasept

I'm a firm believer, based on the myriad I've personally brought to the track over 20+ years, that once they come, the intoxication of the gambling works it's magic. And agree of course that the onus is on us at all junctures.

Blood from a stone?

http://blogs.wsj.com/moneybeat/2014/...tail-spending/

[my miss storm cat]

Originally Posted by Kasept

I'm a firm believer, based on the myriad I've personally brought to the track over 20+ years, that once they come, the intoxication of the gambling works it's magic.

What Stevie said.

[randallscott35]

Originally Posted by my miss storm cat

What Stevie said.

If this were true, Bingo halls would be overflowing. Which is about the average age at the OTB.

[my miss storm cat]

Originally Posted by randallscott35

If this were true, Bingo halls would be overflowing. Which is about the average age at the OTB.

Huh? What does this even mean?

[Duvalier]

Originally Posted by Calzone Lord

What he describes is what they've been trying to market as racings appeal for the last several years.

In the glory years of the sport, it was said "there is little of the true spirit of sport and good feeling among people who attend the races. It is all envy, jealousy, cynicism, hatred, disrespect for authority --- even the humor is sardonic."

And in those same glory years...horse racing dominated pool halls in every city.

Pittsburgh Phil had amassed a fortune in his early 20's -- A.) without ever having watched a horse race before in his life and B.) by betting on horses through the bookies that operated in Pittsburgh's Pool halls.

He did it simply by keeping records of horses names, as well as the winners running time and their margin of victory, thus allowing him to create something resembling a homespun result chart.

If you look to the time period when horse racing was as big as any sport in the entire country (1880s through mid 1920s) -- it wasn't popular because it was some social event, held at beautiful venues. Not in the least.

If "getting" horse racing means accepting it as a social event, where people wear hats, sip on cocktails, watch celebrities athlete make bets, and chat with each other for 30 minutes in between races ... I sure as hell don't get it.

When you bring up Pittsburgh Phil and all the money he won betting horses, what were the betting options back then? Was it just win betting?

[Calzone Lord]

Originally Posted by Duvalier

When you bring up Pittsburgh Phil and all the money he won betting horses, what were the betting options back then? Was it just win betting?

Win, Place, Show. Prop betting. Some exotics were offered. If you could afford to pay the racetrack the commissions, you could operate as a bookmaker on track grounds.

Pittsburgh Phil wasn't the only one making a whole lot of money betting horses. He was just the most sensational because of his background and level of success.

He gets brought up though, because he grew up poor, working in a factory for a $5 a week salary, and died at age 42 worth $3,250,000 (or over $85 million adjusted for inflation) -- all that money profit from betting thoroughbreds. Along the way, papers like the New York Times made him a celebrity and once, even compared him to J. P. Morgan ... who was sort of the Bill Gates and Warren Buffet of that time.

He was a marketing force for the sport. He was his days answer to "Go Baby Go" and he was his days answer to "have a cocktail, socialize, and watch celebrity athletes bet on horses"

It wasn't like he was the only guy winning. However, because of his background and his level of success, he kept all the dopey marketing people with their stupid ideas away from horse racing.

Poker can at least market people that are household names: like Doyle Brunson, Phil Ivey, Phil Hellmuth, etc. etc. etc.

You know what horse racing should market? It's suits and marketing people. They want to make the sport all about themselves and their ideas of what might spur interest from people like themselves...all while the core customer has a reputation of pure degenerates playing a suckers game that no one can beat.

Seriously, the marketing people and the suits in horse racing are truly the 8th wonder of the world.

[Duvalier]

How do you go about marketing that, what is the answer as far as a marketing campaign that will work? There are obviously some very bright and creative people around here...Steve who is one of the best ambassadors of racing with a wide ranging media audience comes from a marketing background. You guys have to have connections as far as marketing goes with your newly released Timeformus.

Maybe people can propose ways to market the sport here in this thread...kind of just throw ideas out there. Personally I think what Kenny McPeek is doing with Horse Races Now is a fantastic way to reach people in this day and age.

[Calzone Lord]

Originally Posted by Duvalier

How do you go about marketing that, what is the answer as far as a marketing campaign that will work?

Easy.

Lower takeout, add betting exchanges and expand on them in an innovative fashion.

End of story. Anything else is badly getting in the way of progress.

Other than the horrible reputation of its core customers brought about by draconian takeout rates... Horse Racing has zero problems now, that it didn't have at least as bad or whole lot worse when it was in it's prime.

[randallscott35]

The Betfair like options would do wonders. Still waiting.

[Calzone Lord]

Originally Posted by randallscott35

The Betfair like options would do wonders. Still waiting.

It would create way too many useful new racing fans.

People who would actually bet...and bet constantly...day in and day out.

That's not what we need. What we need is 'the powers that be' to try to attract their idea of useful customers, by finding clever ways to tell everyone how 'cool' horse racing is.

Yes -- if we can only convince enough of these entitled college grads, like ourselves, that our sport is cool -- it will create so many new fans.

[jms62]

Originally Posted by randallscott35

The Betfair like options would do wonders. Still waiting.

And Jersey approved betting exchanges a few years back and they are now serviced by TVG which is owned by Betfair. They have the platform so what the heck is the hold up?

[Duvalier]

Originally Posted by Calzone Lord

Easy.

Lower takeout, add betting exchanges and expand on them in an innovative fashion.

End of story. Anything else is badly getting in the way of progress.

Other than the horrible reputation of its core customers brought about by draconian takeout rates... Horse Racing has zero problems now, that it didn't have at least as bad or whole lot worse when it was in it's prime.

But that's not marketing. That's changing the way racing is run...marketers cannot do what you're suggesting.