obamacare death watch

Danzig · #1 12-20-2013, 08:42 AM

http://news.msn.com/us/last-minute-o...canceled-plans

obama continues to find ways to wound his signature legislation. how many blows can it take before it dies?

randallscott35 · #2 12-20-2013, 08:51 AM

Tough to admit failure.

GenuineRisk · #3 12-20-2013, 09:11 AM

It's a lucky thing for the elderly that Social Security wasn't created in the age of the Internet. That was a crap program when it started- huge numbers of workers weren't covered by it. But after several decades of tinkering, it turned into the lean, efficient, lifesaving program it is (and it's not in financial trouble. Medicare, whole different story, mainly because health care is too expensive here, but SS is fine.)

The ACA is brand new, major legislation. It's going to take years to fix the issues that will come up. But the GOP is frantic to kill it before it's instituted, because they're afraid once it's in place it'll deliver electoral seats to the Democrats for decades. I don't know why they're worried. Americans have the long-term memory of a gadfly (see the lionization of Ronald Reagan); I'm sure the GOP will figure out a way to take credit for the ACA.

randallscott35 · #4 12-20-2013, 09:20 AM

SS is a ponzi scheme plain and simple. They are not sustainable. Benefits will be cut or the ages will be raised. I fail to see that as successful.

randallscott35 · #5 12-20-2013, 09:23 AM

Take a look at those outlays for the awful boomer generation in the 20's....not gonna happen.

http://www.zerohedge.com/contributed...other-29-crash

jms62 · #6 12-20-2013, 09:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by randallscott35

Take a look at those outlays for the awful boomer generation in the 20's....not gonna happen.

http://www.zerohedge.com/contributed...other-29-crash

The world-wide banking system is a Ponzi scheme if you really want to nit-pick. SS would be in a hell of a lot better shape if the government wasn't allowed to loot it and replace assets with IOU's. What other option is there? Let Wallstreet run it and loot it for billions?

randallscott35 · #7 12-20-2013, 09:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jms62

The world-wide banking system is a Ponzi scheme if you really want to nit-pick. SS would be in a hell of a lot better shape if the government wasn't allowed to loot it and replace assets with IOU's. What other option is there? Let Wallstreet run it and loot it for billions?

Agreed. We are a ponzi economy in general....How about we all save for retirement and if you starve at 80, you saved poorly....or you treat your family well b/c they are the ones who will or will not take care of you. Not Uncle Sugar Daddy Sam.

randallscott35 · #8 12-20-2013, 09:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jms62

The world-wide banking system is a Ponzi scheme if you really want to nit-pick. SS would be in a hell of a lot better shape if the government wasn't allowed to loot it and replace assets with IOU's. What other option is there? Let Wallstreet run it and loot it for billions?

And by the way, that is a huge reason Obama is such a failure. Fat cats walk around without a care in the world. People who created the crisis profited from it and no executive from Holder up did their job and put them in jail where they belong...Meanwhile, avg income in this country is less than it was 14 years ago...good times. Oh and don't forget about 55 million on welfare.

jms62 · #9 12-20-2013, 09:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by randallscott35

Agreed. We are a ponzi economy in general....How about we all save for retirement and if you starve at 80, you saved poorly....or you treat your family well b/c they are the ones who will or will not take care of you. Not Uncle Sugar Daddy Sam.

I see you are at the Bullet-Proof stage in your life. I was once there and have seen a lot of people THROUGH NO FAULT OF THEIR OWN fall on hard times. My empathy factor has grown accordingly. If I were a betting man

I would bet you eventually follow the same path.

randallscott35 · #10 12-20-2013, 10:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jms62

I see you are at the Bullet-Proof stage in your life. I was once there and have seen a lot of people THROUGH NO FAULT OF THEIR OWN fall on hard times. My empathy factor has grown accordingly. If I were a betting man

I would bet you eventually follow the same path.

Hardly. The realism phase. Many in my family have had hard times. The difference is, are the hard times a result of their own decisions, or the corporately owned govt we have...I have sympathy for those who deserve it. Last I looked 70% of the population surveyed think their children will have less opportunity than they did in life. No thanks, when you have children you realize that there has to be a major change in the way we do things in this country. That starts with realizing that money doesn't grow on trees and those who have run the middle class into the ground in this country will get their just rewards.

jms62 · #11 12-20-2013, 10:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by randallscott35

Hardly. The realism phase. Many in my family have had hard times. The difference is, are the hard times a result of their own decisions, or the corporately owned govt we have...I have sympathy for those who deserve it. Last I looked 70% of the population surveyed think their children will have less opportunity than they did in life. No thanks, when you have children you realize that there has to be a major change in the way we do things in this country. That starts with realizing that money doesn't grow on trees and those who have run the middle class into the ground in this country will get their just rewards.

Is this a religion thing because I don't see it happening. I do agree with everything else you say here 100%.

Danzig · #12 12-20-2013, 10:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jms62

The world-wide banking system is a Ponzi scheme if you really want to nit-pick. SS would be in a hell of a lot better shape if the government wasn't allowed to loot it and replace assets with IOU's. What other option is there? Let Wallstreet run it and loot it for billions?

i know people like to say that social security is a ponzi scheme. but it's not. ponzi's fail when people stop paying in; i don't see any sign that they will quit witholding social security.

as for privatizing social security...banks and finance houses would LOVE to get their hands on that money, which should cause every person with any sense at all to immediately halt thinking privatizing would be a good thing. investments come with no guarantees-does anyone want to play with ss? i don't. it's not the only fund i will rely on at retirement. i want to not have to worry about it exploding like peoples pensions-does everyone want to join in the fun that enron retirees got to enjoy? where's their pensions?

randallscott35 · #13 12-20-2013, 10:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danzig

i know people like to say that social security is a ponzi scheme. but it's not. ponzi's fail when people stop paying in; i don't see any sign that they will quit witholding social security.

as for privatizing social security...banks and finance houses would LOVE to get their hands on that money, which should cause every person with any sense at all to immediately halt thinking privatizing would be a good thing. investments come with no guarantees-does anyone want to play with ss? i don't. it's not the only fund i will rely on at retirement. i want to not have to worry about it exploding like peoples pensions-does everyone want to join in the fun that enron retirees got to enjoy? where's their pensions?

If only I wasn't on ignore, you'd be able to understand the meaning of ponzi. When it started, 30 people supported 1 person on it. Today we have 3 workers for everyone collecting. It is a ponzi. The benefits will be cut or better yet inflated away. That's why chained CPI is being discussed. Financial repression is a real thing, ie the whole point of ZIRP to begin with.

Danzig · #14 12-20-2013, 10:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GenuineRisk

It's a lucky thing for the elderly that Social Security wasn't created in the age of the Internet. That was a crap program when it started- huge numbers of workers weren't covered by it. But after several decades of tinkering, it turned into the lean, efficient, lifesaving program it is (and it's not in financial trouble. Medicare, whole different story, mainly because health care is too expensive here, but SS is fine.)

The ACA is brand new, major legislation. It's going to take years to fix the issues that will come up. But the GOP is frantic to kill it before it's instituted, because they're afraid once it's in place it'll deliver electoral seats to the Democrats for decades. I don't know why they're worried. Americans have the long-term memory of a gadfly (see the lionization of Ronald Reagan); I'm sure the GOP will figure out a way to take credit for the ACA.

i know repubs want to kill it. but it won't help if democrats start pulling apart the aca a piece at a time.
they had years to get this right; it's been a huge mess. these different 'fixes' could make it worse.

why, why, why did they not just put everyone on medicare?

joeydb · #15 12-23-2013, 06:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GenuineRisk

It's a lucky thing for the elderly that Social Security wasn't created in the age of the Internet. That was a crap program when it started- huge numbers of workers weren't covered by it. But after several decades of tinkering, it turned into the lean, efficient, lifesaving program it is (and it's not in financial trouble.

Still waiting for the punch line on this one.

Danzig · #16 12-23-2013, 09:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joeydb

Still waiting for the punch line on this one.

why, you think it's a joke?
you don't think social security has been a life saver for many? i don't think any issues with social security are due to the program itself. there are problems due to the politicians raiding it for other programs, but that's certainly not ss's fault.

dellinger63 · #17 12-23-2013, 10:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danzig

why, you think it's a joke?
you don't think social security has been a life saver for many? i don't think any issues with social security are due to the program itself. there are problems due to the politicians raiding it for other programs, but that's certainly not ss's fault.

It's a joke because like Ponzi's bank account the SS Trust Fund has little to no money in it and like Ponzi any hope of being repaid solely relies on bringing in new suckers/SS wage deductions. And you're right, the politicians, like Ponzi have stolen/used the funds for things long gone.

Ponzi was discovered and stopped. SS continues by law and us suckers continue to allow the politicians to raid it. Close to all of it.

What portion of the almost three trillion owed to SS Trust Fund in the form of IOU's is interest on the money 'raided'?

Surely we won't borrow money to pay interest?