2013-2014 NBA Season

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by RockHardTen1985

Where does one start Chuck?? Biggest fraud MVP ever in any sport. He does not deserve an MVP because people were tired of giving it to Lebron. Its simply not fair, not right and whatever else you want to call it.
Rose is a big hype machine IMO. Stories about how NBA players used to drive hours to get street ball games with him when he was only a high school player, he is a hype machine. He is the second coming off nothing. Hes overrated because I can name 10 players that are better then him right now, but he is an MVP and discussed as one of the best in the NBA.
Im not even talking about the fact that he did not play at all last year, when he was cleared to play. Its a joke other people would be crucified, this dude somehow got off.
Lets talk stats now, he plays no D. He averages .9 steals a game for his career. He does not rebound well for a 6'4 dude. His shooting % has also gone down 3 years in a row that he has actually played basketball. Now this is just based on the eye test, but personally I would take Curry, Harden, Lebron, Paul, Durant, Rondo, Westbrook and Irving over Rose. Those guys are for sure. Then you got guys like Melo, and Howard who even though I dislike, I would still prefer them over Rose. Im a Rose hater, Ill admit it. I dislike the guy.

Point 1-Ok fine, give it to LeBron that year but Rose certainly could have been considered the 2nd best player that year. That isnt being overrated.

Point 2-Name me an NBA star who isn't a hype machine?

Point 3- Can you name 10 better players at his position than him? He can't be ranked worse than the 3rd best PG in the world can he? It is hard to compare players at different positions but if you were choosing up teams with every player in the world available he'd certainly be in the top 10 selected.

Point 4- His playing or not playing last year has nothing to do with where he would be rated. Assuming he is 100% (and Scavs says he is so it must be so) he is an All NBA player

Point 5- Steals are a horrible way to assess a players defensive ability. I distinctly remember heaing about his coach instructing him to save himself on defense and not take chances because he was so much of the focal point of the teams offense a few years back. He plays for the preeminent defensive coach in the league, his defense will be fine.

Point 5- He is a PG on a team full of rebounding bigs. His career rebounding avg per game is the same as everybodys all american James Harden. He averages a rebound a game more than Tony Parker.

Point 6- His FG% went down for 3 years because A) he took more shots and
B) his number of 3 point shots went way up and naturally the % for 3pt FG's is lower than 2pt FG's though this is tempered by the fact you get 3 points for a basket rather than 2.
His rookie year he took 1200 shots in 3000 minutes
his last full season he took 1600 in 3000 minutes
That is a 25% increase in shots attempted and he took 300 more 3 pt shots than he did his 1st season. His true shooting percentage (combination of 2pt, 3pt and FT's) has actually gone up. His FG% on 2 pt shots is higher than Curry's.

Point 7- You named 8 guys that you'd take over him. That puts him in the top 10 in the world. How is that overrated?

[RockHardTen1985]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Point 1-Ok fine, give it to LeBron that year but Rose certainly could have been considered the 2nd best player that year. That isnt being overrated.

Point 2-Name me an NBA star who isn't a hype machine?

Point 3- Can you name 10 better players at his position than him? He can't be ranked worse than the 3rd best PG in the world can he? It is hard to compare players at different positions but if you were choosing up teams with every player in the world available he'd certainly be in the top 10 selected.

Point 4- His playing or not playing last year has nothing to do with where he would be rated. Assuming he is 100% (and Scavs says he is so it must be so) he is an All NBA player

Point 5- Steals are a horrible way to assess a players defensive ability. I distinctly remember heaing about his coach instructing him to save himself on defense and not take chances because he was so much of the focal point of the teams offense a few years back. He plays for the preeminent defensive coach in the league, his defense will be fine.

Point 5- He is a PG on a team full of rebounding bigs. His career rebounding avg per game is the same as everybodys all american James Harden. He averages a rebound a game more than Tony Parker.

Point 6- His FG% went down for 3 years because A) he took more shots and
B) his number of 3 point shots went way up and naturally the % for 3pt FG's is lower than 2pt FG's though this is tempered by the fact you get 3 points for a basket rather than 2.
His rookie year he took 1200 shots in 3000 minutes
his last full season he took 1600 in 3000 minutes
That is a 25% increase in shots attempted and he took 300 more 3 pt shots than he did his 1st season. His true shooting percentage (combination of 2pt, 3pt and FT's) has actually gone up. His FG% on 2 pt shots is higher than Curry's.

Point 7- You named 8 guys that you'd take over him. That puts him in the top 10 in the world. How is that overrated?

Lets start with point 7 and Ill link that to his health also. Right now I can name 25 guys I would no questions ask take over. The dude missed like 16 months for an injury most men are back in 8-12. He was special though, so he needed double. At his position right now, assuming everyone is healthy I would take Curry, Paul, Wesbrook Irving over him for sure. Im not a big John Wall guy, but maybe even him. Maybe Tony Parker. Those are the straight PG's. Now is Rose a combo, or a 1? Combo we can add in Wade and Harden for sure. Maybe even Williams, who Im thinking will have a really good year. Even though I personally dont love him. Honestly I would take my boy Eric Bledsoe over him right now. Who knows if he will even play, who knows when he will need 16 more months and then have his brother speak for him, who knows Chuck?

[Duvalier]

Who do you think comes out of the West? I'm thinking Doc Rivers has a big impact on the Clippers. That conference really is wide open though...you can make a case for like five or six teams.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Duvalier

Who do you think comes out of the West? I'm thinking Doc Rivers has a big impact on the Clippers. That conference really is wide open though...you can make a case for like five or six teams.

I'm not sold on the Clippers at all. It is a great landing spot for Rivers but IMO his impact will be a bit overrated. A lot depends on injuries really. I dont like having to depend so much on Crawford like the Clips do when Paul isnt in the game. They will have a lot of trouble guarding bigger guards with Paul and Collison backing him up. I like Reddick and Crawford better off the bench but one has to start. If you have Collison and Crawford on the court at the same time you have to have Jordan in as well or it will be a layup drill. Jordan is really the key to this team, as they can afford to have minus defenders all over the place outside of Barnes with him in the game protecting them rim. I know I hated a lot of the things Del Negro did but Paul more or less runs the team on the floor and dont think the in game managemt was as bad last year as it was in prior years. Be a fun team to watch but I dont see them making it out of the West again.

If Curry and Bogut stay healthy, If the older Spurs stay healthy, If Miller stays healthy in Memphis, If Westbrook comes back healthy... lot of if's healthwise in the West. I guess the biggest question mark healthwise in the league would be Wade. He looked pretty bad for a good portion of the playoffs. Without him being at least 90% of himself it is hard to see Miami winning. Everyone seems to have forgotten that Indiana played them extremely tough and if Allen doesnt hit that unbelievable 3 point shot the Spurs are defending the title.

[Duvalier]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

I'm not sold on the Clippers at all. It is a great landing spot for Rivers but IMO his impact will be a bit overrated. A lot depends on injuries really. I dont like having to depend so much on Crawford like the Clips do when Paul isnt in the game. They will have a lot of trouble guarding bigger guards with Paul and Collison backing him up. I like Reddick and Crawford better off the bench but one has to start. If you have Collison and Crawford on the court at the same time you have to have Jordan in as well or it will be a layup drill. Jordan is really the key to this team, as they can afford to have minus defenders all over the place outside of Barnes with him in the game protecting them rim. I know I hated a lot of the things Del Negro did but Paul more or less runs the team on the floor and dont think the in game managemt was as bad last year as it was in prior years. Be a fun team to watch but I dont see them making it out of the West again.

If Curry and Bogut stay healthy, If the older Spurs stay healthy, If Miller stays healthy in Memphis, If Westbrook comes back healthy... lot of if's healthwise in the West. I guess the biggest question mark healthwise in the league would be Wade. He looked pretty bad for a good portion of the playoffs. Without him being at least 90% of himself it is hard to see Miami winning. Everyone seems to have forgotten that Indiana played them extremely tough and if Allen doesnt hit that unbelievable 3 point shot the Spurs are defending the title.

Totally agree on DeAndre Jordan being the key...that's why I'm leaning towards picking them to come out of the West, along with the injury/health concerns surrounding some of the other contending teams out there. I think Jordan will have a big time breakout year for the Clips. And I do like Doc Rivers over Vinny Del Negro. Still pulling for the Blazers though.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Duvalier

Totally agree on DeAndre Jordan being the key...that's why I'm leaning towards picking them to come out of the West, along with the injury/health concerns surrounding some of the other contending teams out there. I think Jordan will have a big time breakout year for the Clips. And I do like Doc Rivers over Vinny Del Negro. Still pulling for the Blazers though.

He is basically poor mans version of Tyson Chandler. It isn't like they are going to let him start shooting and on defense it isn't his effort that gets him in trouble, it is his poor decision making. Plus until he figures out how to shoot 60% or so from the line (shot 39% last year which is disgraceful) it will be hard to play him late in games. If he can take the next step, play better defensively, stay out of foul trouble, shoot FT's just good enough, the Clippers will be dangerous.

[Duvalier]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

He is basically poor mans version of Tyson Chandler. It isn't like they are going to let him start shooting and on defense it isn't his effort that gets him in trouble, it is his poor decision making. Plus until he figures out how to shoot 60% or so from the line (shot 39% last year which is disgraceful) it will be hard to play him late in games. If he can take the next step, play better defensively, stay out of foul trouble, shoot FT's just good enough, the Clippers will be dangerous.

Yeah...THAT'S going to remain a problem lol. What are your impressions of the Blazer's Damian Lillard? I know some people believe he has pretty much peaked but I love what he's done so far, and think he has more upside. Defense is still a work in progress.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by RockHardTen1985

Lets start with point 7 and Ill link that to his health also. Right now I can name 25 guys I would no questions ask take over. The dude missed like 16 months for an injury most men are back in 8-12. He was special though, so he needed double. At his position right now, assuming everyone is healthy I would take Curry, Paul, Wesbrook Irving over him for sure. Im not a big John Wall guy, but maybe even him. Maybe Tony Parker. Those are the straight PG's. Now is Rose a combo, or a 1? Combo we can add in Wade and Harden for sure. Maybe even Williams, who Im thinking will have a really good year. Even though I personally dont love him. Honestly I would take my boy Eric Bledsoe over him right now. Who knows if he will even play, who knows when he will need 16 more months and then have his brother speak for him, who knows Chuck?

This is insane talk.

[RockHardTen1985]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

This is insane talk.

Ok maybe Westbrook and Rondo because then my Rose injury argument kinda blows up in my face.... But who else is insane??

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by RockHardTen1985

Ok maybe Westbrook and Rondo because then my Rose injury argument kinda blows up in my face.... But who else is insane??

John Wall? the 2013-14 version of Wade? the current version of D Williams? Eric Bledsoe?

[RockHardTen1985]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

John Wall? the 2013-14 version of Wade? the current version of D Williams? Eric Bledsoe?

Deandre Jordan is OK and all, but talking about him being the key to anything is insane talk IMO. They key to the Clippers is how coach and PG mesh. And if Blake Griffin moves forward....

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by RockHardTen1985

Deandre Jordan is OK and all, but talking about him being the key to anything is insane talk IMO. They key to the Clippers is how coach and PG mesh. And if Blake Griffin moves forward....

This is what Skip Bayless and Wilbon and those types of guys want you to believe because they dont actually watch games not on Sunday afternoon or not involving the Heat or Lakers. However the coach/PG nonsense is pretty close to immaterial in this case. Obviously Paul signed off on Rivers. Paul isn't going to play any differently than he has. The key is Jordan because he needs to get better and the obvious weak area here is defense. His back up is Ryan Hollins. Think that they are getting through Memphis (Gasol and Randolph) and Houston (Howard) with Hollins playing big minutes? The NBA is the most misunderstood of the big sports as everyone just focuses on the stars but truth is they are amazingly consistent from year to year with what they give you. The difference is usually the development of guys like Jordan who needs to improve in a few area's which can create a domino effect on other players. Teams spend 50% of the time of defense, trying to stop the other team from scoring and with minus defenders like Collison, Crawford, Jamison, Dudley and Mullens scheduled to play big minutes, Jordan protecting the rim and covering their weaknesses means a lot. Even Griffin is only an average defender who relies too much on his athleticism as opposed to fundamental concepts and positioning.